The Ruckers Forum

Forum » Rugby » General Stuff » RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
Login to reply
 
 
 
2767 Topic: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
Papamoa

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 263
RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 22, 2012, 18:59:56

Legend All Black captain dies. first man to win test series in South Africa. Captained team for 30 tests. From  57-65 regarded as one of the best captains of all time. Famous for being cheered off field by oppersition in Cardiff after winning against Barbarians. he was 77,  Rugby legend.


Arthur John

Status: Squad member
Posts: 484
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 22, 2012, 20:19:25

 Great captain, player and person.

I had the pleasure of sitting next to him on a flight from Auckland to Brisbane in 2001.

We spoke alot mainly about rugby and the contests between NZ and SA and you know what he never had a naste comment about any player. Full of praise in most instances to both sides.

His knowledge of the players and their background was indeed impressive and he was a really great person.

Thank you Wilson for the chance to see you play and the privelige of meeting you.

Rest in peace.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5359
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 22, 2012, 20:25:24

RIP whinneray u All Black legend, thoughts and prayers with ur whanau, :o)

@aruthur john,

thats a nice story bro, :o)


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 22, 2012, 20:34:18

"first man to win test series in South Africa"

 

Not sure what yr on about but the 1st man to win a series in SA was the captain of the 1891 British Lions. NZ didnt win a series in SA until over 100 years later in 1996 when Whineray was long retired. Pls check yr facts before posting this kind of rubbish. Tx.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10225
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 22, 2012, 21:11:11

My late father was a real ruby lover and he took us with - when I was still a  kid - to see the All Blacks play at Newlands.   the same wishes as those expressed above from me.

Sasu

This is really many years ago.   I believe the All Blacks has a full back in the team led by Whinery by the name of Don Clark?  Was that so and what happened to him?


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6433
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 22, 2012, 22:45:25

The Fruit is having a hissy fit about facts, but he misses the bigger picture....Whineray was a great of the game, and played it hard, fair and with no excuses.  No Suzie's in 1960! RIP Wilson!


Papamoa

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 263
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 03:47:44

all right Jal, get a grip....one of the first captains to win series....my apologies.


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 08:58:21

RIP Sir Wilson Whineray
 

Even if he had not been a fine rugby player and an exceptional man of the game Wilson Whineray would have gained a significant place in New Zealand society, such were his natural leadership qualities, calm personality and intellectual depth. When he was knighted in the late 1990s it was as much for his contribution to business and the community at large as his standing as one of the greatest of All Black captains.

But as a rugby player he was a towering figure in the game who both achieved and contributed mightily.

Whineray had a colossal record at All Black level. He played in 77 matches between 1957 and 1965, including 32 tests in which he was captain in all but two. The Whineray test record, of course, needs to be put in the context of his playing period. Most seasons in which Whinerary was an All Black there was on average only two or three tests a year. Had programmes then been as hefty as today Whinerary’s test tally undoubtedly would have been in the 70s or 80s.

Whinerary also had a distinguished career at provincial and first class levels. After leaving Auckland Grammar School, where he had played in the first XV as a halfback, Whinerary travelled the country as an agricultural field cadet.

Because of that, and academic studies at Massey Agricultural College and Lincoln College, Whineray played for no fewer than six different provincial unions: Wairarapa (three matches in 1953), Mid Canterbury (nine matches in 1954), Manawatu (seven matches in 1955), Canterbury (16 matches in 1956-57), Waikato (seven matches in 1958) and Auckland (61 matches between 1959-66).

Whineray also played for the South Island (1957) and the North (six times between 1958-65), the New Zealand under 21s on a tour of Ceylon (now Sri Lanka) in 1955, the New Zealand under 23s as captain on a tour of Japan in 1958 and played in 15 All Black trials.

As a 21-year old in 1956 he had the distinction of twice playing the touring Springboks, for Canterbury and New Zealand Universities, and being in the winning side on each occasion. He was a member, too, of the great Auckland sides in one of the most memorable Ranfurly Shield reigns in 1960-63.

Whineray had been captain of the Auckland side which had lifted the shield from Southland in 1959 and it was another mark in his favour that he graciously agreed to play under the captaincy of Bob Graham from 1960 onwards after having been relaced, of necessity, in the post because of the All Blacks’ tour of South Africa.

But it was as an All Black that he achieved his main fame. A fine player and remarkably mobile and athletic in the open, Whineray almost always played at prop but he was also effective as a loose forward occasionally at No 8.

The only doubts raised over his rugby ability were over his scrummaging prowess and he was placed under pressure particularly on the 1960 tour of South Africa by the Springbok Piet du Toit.

But Whineray worked on this part of his game to a point where he was rarely bettered in future internationals and during the 1960s he was part of some champion All Black packs alongside other giants like Colin Meads, Kel Tremain and Ken Gray. And Whineray was always assured of his test place because of his rare captaincy qualities.

Whineray was first capped on the 1957 tour of Australia and after leading the under 23s became the All Black captain for the 1958 series against the Wallabies when he was aged only 23.

He led the All Blacks against the 1959 Lions, to South Africa in 1960, against France in 1961, in the twin series against the Wallabies in 1962 and then in what was arguably the high point of his career on the 1963-64 tour of Britain and France. Later there was criticism of some aspects of his captaincy style, and in particular his lack of rapport with younger players, by Chris Laidlaw in his 1973 book, “Mud In Your Eye.”

But generally there was acclaim for Whineray who on the 1963-64 tour enjoyed a close relationship with coach Neil McPhail, who in the mid 1950s had introduced him to some powerful Canterbury sides. The eminent critic Terry McLean was one of those who was a staunch Whineray admirer and he named his brilliant book on the 1963-64 tour in Whineray’s honour. The title, 'Willie Away' came from the move from a lineout peel in which Whineray was a principal component.

McLean wrote of Whineray: “I would unhesitatingly acclaim him as New Zealand’s greatest captain.” Most would agree with this assessment even allowing for the fact that he has been followed by a number of other fine leaders. But Whineray deserves a special niche because he was the man who set the leadership standards by which everyone else could be judged.

Whineray missed the 1964 series against the Wallabies but returned in 1965 to lead the All Blacks to a series win over the touring Springboks. Of the 30 tests in which he was captain 23 were won, only four were lost and three were drawn.

For a man who primarily was a tight forward Whineray had an astonishing try scoring ability. He scored 50 at first class level, including a double in his first test as captain against the Wallabies in 1958. The most famous of his tries was that against the Barbarians on the 1964 tour when he raced into the open and threw a dummy with the aplomb of a skilled three quarter.

Whineray retired from rugby in 1966 but continued to have a high public profile, both within the game and in his business and personal life. He became a successful businessman and chairman of the board of one of the country’s largest industries, Carter Holt Harvey. He served the commercial world on the boards of several other companies.

He also served a term as chairman of the Hillary Commission, the body set up by the Government to oversee elite sport funding. From 1980 he was on the Eden Park board of control and after serving rugby in a number of advisory roles he became the New Zealand Rugby Union patron in 2003.

Though never officially holding office in rugby at either provincial or national levels, he was always close to the game and in the early to mid 70s he coached successfully at club levels with Grammar in Auckland and with Onslow in Wellington.

For a period there were two Whineray’s leading New Zealand national sides, for elder brother Bruce captained the national hockey team.



 

 

FULL NAME

Wilson James Whineray

BORN

Wednesday, 10 July 1935 in Auckland

DIED

Monday, 22 October 2012 in Auckland

PHYSICAL

1.83m, 94kg

POSITION

Prop

LAST SCHOOL

Auckland Grammar

RUGBY CLUB
(First made All Blacks from)

Lincoln College

PROVINCES

Canterbury, Waikato, Auckland

ALL BLACK DEBUT

Saturday, 18 May 1957
v N.S.W. at Sydney
aged 21 years, 312 days

INTERNATIONAL DEBUT

Saturday, 25 May 1957
v Australia at Sydney
aged 21 years, 319 days

LAST TEST

Saturday, 18 September 1965
v South Africa at Auckland
aged 30 years, 70 days

ALL BLACK TESTS

32 (30 as Captain)

ALL BLACK GAMES

45 (37 as Captain)

TOTAL ALL BLACK MATCHES

77 (67 as Captain)

ALL BLACK TEST POINTS

6pts (2t, 0c, 0p, 0dg, 0m)

ALL BLACK GAME POINTS

18pts (5t, 0c, 0p, 1dg, 0m)

TOTAL ALL BLACK POINTS

24pts (7t, 0c, 0p, 1dg, 0m)

ALL BLACK NUMBER

585


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8833
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 10:04:15

Yes indeed RIP Wilson.

I cannot but note that Wilson played prop and weighed only 94 kg. Carpet muncher before you take this as evidence that 94 kg props can do the job please understand that players today are far bigger, heavier and faster today. I think therefore you have a time warp problem.

However this thread is about Wilson and wha tan excellent nz guy he was so please post your reply elsehwere if you must. I just didnt want you going off on another tangent.

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8833
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 10:05:50

Thanks for the correction jalloppy we dont want the emotion of the moment blinding us to truth.


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 10:17:22

"all right Jal, get a grip....one of the first captains to win series....my apologies."

 

Nothing wrong with my grip Papamoa. Again, for the sake of accuracy, Whineray NEVER won a test series in SA (as you initially claimed) and he was actually the 3rd captain (and joint 36th player) to win any series (home or away) vs SA.

 

Anyway, I will accept yr apology.


Denny

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1514
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 13:57:22

I couldn't  read about the passing of WW without passing my respect. for a fine leader.....RIP Wilson Whineray.


Papamoa

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 263
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 17:05:01

o.k jal...take you long to find that info out. thanks for the info all the same. A legend AB was the point


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5359
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 23, 2012, 18:56:04

@clevermike,

don "the boot" clarke was before my time, but like whineray and colin meads, they are names that have been immortalised in NZ rugby.

i cant tell u if he was in that team exactly, but i do remember watching a doucmentary on don clarke when i was a kid and he played for waikato in a real famous victory over the touring Boks.

he passed away in 2002 or 2003 though, but like whinerary and pine tree, they will always be remembered in rugby mad NZ.


i have very fond memories of my old man taking me to rugby games as a kid too, but mainly against the wallabies my 2nd fave rivalry in the world.

on a different note, dont u think that the All Blacks and the Boks could play 3 tests in one year??? similar to the stand alone bledisloe from last week??? i can understand the t0w games per nation in the IRC, but theres enough time for one more IMO.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 25, 2012, 14:37:49

a true gentleman of the game he will be missed


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10225
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 25, 2012, 15:52:36

Sasue

I am pretty sure that Don Clarke played at th same time as Whineray did and that he was in the test at Newlands.   I can remember he was a very tall guy and in fact looked more like a lock than a fullback.   An yes - he did convert penalties at the Newlands test and his ickname was "The Boot".   Matter of fact I think the score was 9-0 in that test - all penalties kicked by Clarke.

By the way - I checked on the internet about Don Clarke - hedid play for the All Blacks and was on the tour when Whineray was captain.   What I did find interesting is that two of the players mentioned by you moved to SA after their retirement.   Don Clarke died in Johannesburg in 2002.    I thought meads lived for a while in Johannesburg as well - but may be wrong on that one.

Beeno

In the 1950's the players in general was of smaller built than they are today.   The top prop those days in the world was Piet (Spiere) Du Toit and he weighed only 96 kgs.   He was just about 6' tall.   His grandson - Pieter-Steph du toit is 6'8" and weighs in at 118 kgs.   That more than anything else shows the real differences that occurred in s little as 50 to 60 years.   

There can be no comaprison weight and size wise with the present players and things changed massively in that respect over the past 50 to 60 years.   I may mention that in 1938 the tallest player in the Springboks team - regarded as a giant was 6'1".    Today the tallest player can be somewhere around 6'8-9" and weigh in at circa 120kgs.    The props normally are roundabout 6'1 - 2" - coming in at more or less the weight mentioned.

 

 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: RIP Whineray first captain to win SA series
October 25, 2012, 16:22:28

yeah its amazing how player sizes are so different from todays' game to 50 years back.....i am quite sure the players will just become heavier and heavier as time goes on. i9 reckon they might want the IRB to increase field sizes :)


Leave a reply:

You need to be logged in to leave a reply.
 
 

From The Sideline