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2762 Topic: The MIghty WP
Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 10:51:23

I came across this post:

During 2012 the Stormers ended top of the SA conference of the super 15.
WP won the 2012 Vodacom cup.
WP will contest the final’s in the under 19, under 21 and currie cup competitions on Saturday. Their opponents in the 2 age group games will be the Bulls.
The Bulls were by far the best team at the Cravenweek
.

The Sharks have won sweet nothing so far and is contesting only one final on Saturday.

Taking the above into consideration I would like to learn about the formula that you have used to come to the conclusion that the Sharks are dominating the traditional pwerhouses of SA rugby?

Well said there Robzim!!!   No need to elaborate further.

Guys like windpomp, Heineken Meyer and Moaner must be eating their hearts out. Hahhahahahaha as for Stu 5 get a grip you guppies could face extinction the moment your imports dry up. Hahahahahahahaha - just be glad you are facing a severely weakened WP pack. No Liebenberg, Bekker, Elstadt, Burger, Koster etc. Also no Jean.  But although everyone gives us no chance lets at least wait to see the outcome ofthe game. I am sure WP will put up a big fight.

Coetzee play a decent hooker that can scrum!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Play Du Plessis as well. Wake up!!

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 11:02:20

What was impressive to me is the fitness of WP. They played a great last quarter at altitude.

Sharkies beware!


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 11:03:42

 Even if Province had their strongest team possible they would still only have two chances of winning....Fat and slim ;-)

 

Sharks are just too good for Province. We are too well rounded and its almost as though we grip province by the throat at the start of the game and just squeeze tighter as the game goes on until province are out of breath and no energy to fight on...


blobbok

Status: Squad member
Posts: 554
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 11:12:32

Jeez Beano , perhaps I should do a copy, & paste your post 'elsewhere' methinks .


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 11:14:24

Boklogic with our full pack your wee lads would get a very severe snotklap. To be hones I am very concerned about our front row. Scurra is a midget and cant scrum. With Bekker and Etzebeth, Vermuelen etc  we would dominate the lineouts and with Liebenberg we would probably edge the scrums or at least gain parity.

Your backline looks a little better as we are missing Jean. However that would not have mattered if we had our full pack as you would have been on the backfoot all afternoon. Ou Alistair has got it ver ywrong in not playing Du Plessis as well.

My main concern is no more injuries before the tour. Incredible - to think we have had two ferocious semi final games and now a final and then we travel to UK I believe?


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 11:33:12

 Ha ha you guys had Etzebeth and Bekker in the super 15 games against us but Sharks still dominated with Sykes and Bresler..Dont underestimate Bresler..That kid is class.

 

Daniel on Vermuelen = Both offer something different but Daniel has been exceptional all year

Coetzee on Fourie = Coetzee hands down

Alberts on your 7 = Alberts

Our front row is much better any day of the week..Locks are pretty much equal as our boys are no muppets...Our backs just have too much class..13+ coming up Beeno


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 11:57:29

Bobbok disseminating truth is always appealing so do feel free. I know there are links given to what is said here and I have no objection as we are an open board of rugby lovers.

No my point is that the sharkies could not handle a pack containing the Likes of Kitshoff, Liebenberg, Malherbe, Etzebeth, Bekker, Burger, Vermulen and Elsatadt. Plumtree ackowledged all thi sand how the Stormers pack at full strength had given the sharkies a solid klap - I quoted his on this.

Lets be honest they would get pumped. Wee daniel would diappear as he always does against a powerful pack. Elstadt would have Alberts's number and the combination of Burger, Vermulen and Elstadt would murder your guys as would our locks. The only place where you might gain parity would be scrumtime. Our roling maul would, with the pack I mentioned, simply waltz over ythe guppeis tryline at will.

Bressler is all class. Boklogic pleas e - he is seldom mentioned when it comesto Bok selection.

Having muched and crunched the guppies pack we bring on Deon Fourie and Koster to run them ragged.

Folks please also remember the extreme youth of the WP tight five and remember we wil be even stronger next year. Its all about WP/ Stormers with the only weakness being at hooker where Alistair needs to get his mind right quickly.

We could struggle to win this final but only due to injuries - I will leave the ref out of the picture till I see how he performs.

The world hs yet to see the WP/Stormers at full strength. What a sight that will be!!!!!!!!!  I do think by next year you could pick a pack frrom the rest of South Acrica and the Stormers at full strength would be better.

 

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 11:59:36

I was going to say a final always brings the best out of the guppy blowhards but then realised they dont need a final!!


blobbok

Status: Squad member
Posts: 554
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 12:03:30

Jawellnofine Beano we aint got Schalk but they're missing Bismarck .


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 12:26:18

Bobok they the are missing Bissie a fine player of course- bes tin world in his position. We are missing, Liebenberg, Bekker, Elsatdt, Burger and Koster. That is very significant. Missing Jean is also significant.  The sharks are practically at full strength we are decidely not at full strength.

End of story.

But not the end of the guppie blowhards! Hahahahahaha its what they do!

I have  to say though I do have some sympathy for the bulle. They came back well to get to the semis and fought hard with no luck and a ref tha tfavoured the sharkie sa tad. They need to sort out their center combo above everything else. Also there are players there who are not playing with commitment. I would like Hougaard play with more authority, JJ is a disaster, Basson is showing little go in him - better player that this etc.

But bulle are rebuilding one has to acknowlege this. Why thety let Stander go is a mystery. A bad as our letting Deon Fourie g o - crazy - he is a match winner and off the bench devastating. - should go on tour.

Shark with Lambie and Reinach on the rise are going to do well next year. Provided we sort out our reseve hooker position we should do better. We have added an attcking dimension to our game and acquired a very fine player in Taute to play 15. Du Plessis also looks very good and hopefully Pat Howard will step up as well.

Remembr its Stormerrule oaks. Thats the way it should be.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 13:18:20

let be honest.....the vodacom cup is not a major cup nor more so the noddy cup aka die conf cup ext.....the cc the rwc and the super rugby cup are all the major cups that there is to be won. google it if you dont believe me...first and foremost the game will be a clash of styles....total rugby against the defensive forward obsessed wp. time will tell who will win it on the day but total rugby will always win in any game.

 

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 13:23:47

Carpet muncher great to see you back!

You obviously have not been watching rugby for the last few months as if you had it is possible you would have noticed the very nice attacking style of WP. 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 13:30:53

i have been watching rugby mate but to be fair the replacements in du plessis and brache has been way more dynamic than de jongh and JDV......as we know how no cups coetzee tends to climb into his conservative closet as soon as he hears the word final i wont be surprized that they pull a 2012 super rugby mindset and try to outkick the sharks.....

 

good to be back beeno...just wanted to say i heard a rumour that sarpa is getting a massive package ready for trying to lure jaques fourie back to SA....from that i heard he might be heading to the stormers if everything gets approved


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11916
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 13:38:50

Neeno

Sorry to say so - but I give WP about a 5% chance of winning in the final.   In essence I think the WP fowards are OK - but their backline is no up to standard - especially insofar as the center combination is concerned.   Brache and De Jongh are potentially the worst combination at center  you can get.

I don't think Coetzee would change that combination - so you might as well kick the torphy good bye.

12+ i s my prediction on that one.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The MIghty WP
October 22, 2012, 13:49:44

its simple if no cups coetzee is himself the sharks will walk this final. its been a epic year for my boys in black 2 finals already so i will be hoping no cups stays true to form


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 23, 2012, 16:21:48

It would be grea tto have Jaque back Carpet muncher but here is my immediate worry - saw this today:

Both Paul Roos product Kitshoff and co-youngster Malherbe are arguably also hamstrung just a little by the fact that hooker Ntubeni is far more renowned for his mobility and inspiring work-rate than for what he offers in kilogram terms to the scrum party.

A bit like they used to say of ever-tenacious Bok and WP open-sider Corne Krige, “Scarra” perhaps only gets to somewhere around the three-figure mark on the scales with hidden weights in his underwear?

What is annoying is that if the scrum doesnt do well, and that is a real possibility, all the wrong conclusions will be drawn about the ability of Kitshoff and Malherbe.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11916
RE: The MIghty WP
October 23, 2012, 21:10:13

Beeno

Many years ago tthere were 11 Western province players in the Springbok team.   The Springboks lost in a tests and on the way out there was a man urinating against a wall.   When they asked him what he was doing he said_

"We Pee against the wall".

Prepare yourself - that is excatly what will happen on Saturday.   A lot of people are going to use that term after the loss against the Sharks by 12+ points.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: The MIghty WP
October 23, 2012, 21:51:04

Beeno, it doesnt mean because people dont speak of Bressler as a Bok that he is not class. He had a far bigger game against the Stormers in Durban than Bekker or Etzebeth had. Matt Todd of the Crusaders is not spoken about as an All Black too often so does that make him ineligible to be a class player?

 

WP with a full strength team would still be toppled by the Sharks. Sharks are more professional and a lot tighter team culture. Province have good individuals but are not the best team ;-) We all know that after the super rugby tournament and previous games in the Currie cup this year that you have gone out an bought a Sharks jersey and made a Sharks shrine which you will pull out from under your bed on Saturday..SHARKS FOREVER!!!


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3410
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 00:05:26

 Injuries happen to all teams, but some teams still win tournaments. The Stormers and WP have been very good over the last few years be classified as mighty they need to win some tournaments. In this regard they need to get their backline to score tries again. Next to the Sharks, the stormers are my favourite team and have the potential but their backline attack is woeful at present. 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 08:50:37

I only ask all guppie supporters no tto count their chickens before they hatch. Also please do remember tha tour win agans ttheLions wa ssomething the sharkies could not achieve last year.

I saw with some dismay,as it is a reflection on the acumen of this board that scurra had been selected as Bok scrumhalf. Some of the other selections were to be polite shocking as well!!! Jaloppy has been busy along with the kiwi bird brains no doubt! Hahahahahahahaha

No oaks the pressure is all on the guppies. Read this please:

JON CARDINELLI of keo writes that a young and depleted Western Province team is likely to lose this Saturday. It’s a probable outcome that shouldn’t be met with the typical public lament. (But it will be - hould it happen - due entirely to the lack of analytical ability and lack of rugby acumen of the vast majority of fans  - particualry guppie fans of course!)

Neither the Stormers nor Western Province have won a title of substance since 2001 (Rubbish the SA COnfernce trophy i s worth more than the Currie Cup by FAR!!!!!). It’s a fact that’s shaped public expectation ahead f every subsequent campaign.(SIC)

When the Stormers fail in the Super Rugby competition, the inevitable public fall-out is soon followed by a greater sense of expectation in the Currie Cup. The pressure builds with each failed campaign, as does the expectation. The situation is rarely taken into account. (I am afraid the assessment stops at the ability to read the scoreboard - witness the kiwi bird brains re the Dunedin test and some dismal conclusions re the wc quater final versus oz - think kiwi bird brains - mike and windpomp)

I’m not suggesting that we should accept the Stormers and WP are not good enough to win a title. For a top franchise or union to go 12 years without winning a big trophy… it’s indefensible.(Blame the top guys who have lost coaches of the caliber of mallet and Rassie and failed to give the stormers the budget of  union like the bulle)

This is the only conclusion one can reach when considering the bigger picture. However, you also have to accept that there will be seasons where the Cape side is weakened and depleted, and so cannot be expected to go all the way. And 2012 has been one of those seasons. (Too true we should have won the Super 15 thi syear but for injuries)

If one is to consider the situation, the Stormers overachieved in this year’s Super Rugby competition.(Man it is wonderful when an oak has a clue about things) Their situation was so dire that they were asking club players to start in their back row towards the end of the tournament.

In spite of the injuries, some of these to key personnel with international experience, the Stormers were able to finish at the top of the Super Rugby log. Yes, they played their semi-final at Newlands, but they were always going to be the underdogs fielding second- and third-choice provincial players against a Sharks side stacked with Springboks. (Not that any of this was taken into account by all those lacking any rugby acumen - man the moronic comments made on some rugby sites and one small one in particular were breathtakingly stupid))

When the Cape public lifted itself out of yet another period of depression, they grew optimistic. Surely WP would set things right in the Currie Cup?

But national call-ups and further injuries continued to undermine the Cape crusade. Schalk Burger, Nizaam Carr, and Nick Koster were always considered doubtful to return in the domestic competition, and it didn’t help when the likes of Dewaldt Duvenage, Siya Kolisi, Rynhardt Elstadt and Kurt Coleman succumbed to season-ending injuries. Then returning Boks of the calibre of Jean de Villiers, Andries Bekker and Tiaan Liebenberg were ruled out of the Currie Cup play-offs. (Indeed we have to hope ourseciond string can beat the guppies away from home- bobbok please note all this as you seem to thing the abcence of bissie is a counterweight - hahahahahahhaha)

When you add up all of these losses, how can you realistically expect WP to beat the Sharks in Durban? (Exactly so but we still live in hope)

I’m not saying it’s impossible, I’m merely stating that it’s unlikely considering Province’s handicap. It would be a miracle if they could pull it off, but it wouldn’t be a disaster if they did not. (My view entirely)

You have to give Allister Coetzee and his coaches credit for the manner in which they have responded to the challenge this year (Yes they have tasted success but have also blundered - over playing players - poor game plan that ment we did not earn a bonus point dispite topping the log. Poor attacking ability - a badly coached side in some respects  that still somehow made it to top of the log). The Stormers won the South African conference trophy and topped the Super Rugby log in spite of crippling injuries to key players. A young WP side has been further depleted over the course of the Currie Cup, and yet they are still through to the final. It speaks volumes for the team culture and structures. (Glad to see some spark coming back into the side and credit to Allistair and the staff for this)

I don’t think the guts as well as the collective clout of this Province side will be sufficient this Saturday (Fair comment). My statement is made in the context of who they are up against: a Sharks side that is stacked with players that have not only won the Currie Cup twice in the past four years, but also players that have won greater accolades at international level.

There is individual brilliance in this Sharks side, but there’s also a strong sense of unity. And it would follow that a united Bok-laden Sharks team playing in Durban would be too strong for a united-yet-understrength WP side.

People like to look at the newspaper and see the world in black and white, not in shades of grey ( I call it lack of anlytical ability! - look at rthe scorebaord they squak - hahahahahahahaha). Teams are either excellent or rubbish (lose by a point and you are useless - it all emotin gone haywire), individuals are either heroes or villains. I expect that the Cape newspapers will run the same old headlines on Sunday, and there will be very little perspective. The Sharks will be heroes, and WP will be villains. (Too true if we lose that is  -there will be no perspective at all))

And yet, perspective demands that we see Province’s task as immense. The Sharks have all the advantages and if they were to lose, it would be regarded as a choke. For WP, however, a loss could not be aligned with the disappointments of yesteryear, even though it will go down in history as yet another lost final.

Well I thought I would post this in the vain hope we might have some perspective should the WP lose. Also I think folk need to understand how well WP hav edone this season in the circumstances. Oaks give credit where its due and salute in awe the Mighty Stormers!!!!!!


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 09:28:51

to be fair if plums or any other coach had the level of players and resources to its disposal the wp would have been won every cup since 2001....there is biggest problem is there lack of a better word game plan. to win a major cup like the CC and the super rugby title you need more areas of attack than just one or 2. that is were the wp is really at 6's and 7's....

 

there is a massive of amount of depth here in cape town in terms of players and resources and i dont buy into the excuse of injuries as it effects all teams its just how one manages it. the medical team of the WP is to blame here as it seems that the wp has more injuries and poorer recovery times than any other team.

 

to be fair no cups coetzee has not taken wp nor the stormers to the next level in more than 5 + years so how can he still be the one to lead ??? with the likes of alan zondagh carel du plessis and co all based in cape town that in my view can elavate the wp to a insane level of performance as coaches. makes one wonder it the wp supporters are just not content in being the next best in stead of the best.

 

as a sharks boytjie i hope no cups coetzee get a extended contract to 2020 at least we have one less team to worry about then. every year no cups uses the same old excuses of we are building blah blah blah and the poor wp supporters cant seem to recall that he uses the same old scripted responses year in and year out. i for one am quite sure i can coach the wp team to much better results than this plonker.


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 09:35:17

We have to keep bumping this thread so it does not disappear. It should be fun to read it after the final whistle of the game. Pity that we are sitting with such a shitty system where we cannot retrieve past threads that has disappeared off the list.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11916
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 10:15:20

Bongani - if you want this thread after the game just do what I am doing now.

Just to keep this on top.


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 10:20:54

I have no intention of doing what you are doing. I would rather keep it short and simple. I am not into lengthy essays of BS to say something that can be said in a few sentences.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 11:29:38

lets keep it on the top boys :)


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 11:38:15

I only want it at the top to have a laugh at the excuses.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10911
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 12:56:51

Ou carpet muncher thinks he could do better than Alistair. hahahahahahhahaha thanks muncher for the laugh of the day. Muncher rugby 101 page 1 is nor enough!!

All sharks oaks should indeed save a copy of this article and when tempted to do some chest beating should your team win you might be restrained by knowing you beat  a well under strength WP side containing some very young players. 

Muncher I have concerns about the coaching staff but we shall see what happens next year as they have managed to bring more balance into WP play.

Lastly muncher every side has injuries but some more than others. Muncher in other words  having 1 player out injured is better than having many out injurred. Read the article carefully and you may get a glimmer. Bwahahahahahhahaha hilarious stuff from the guppies!!!


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The MIghty WP
October 24, 2012, 13:05:11

i am quite sure in 2 or 4 years i can get your team over that choker tag old beenkop.....if they have supporters like you in the mist why in heavens name would i want to :)

 

the only balance to wp is the players bank balance beyond that they are if the type of talent and resources to there disposal woefully inept and under performers par excelance. you WP fanboys are use to it by now hey beeno

 

all that i can say is long may the choke continue. the most arogant supporters tag has moved from the bulls to the oversold WP team. levels of delusion has reach epic perportions. do you even remember tour last major cup beeno ???? where you still at school when they won it. hell chester was stil a player back then.


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