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2759 Topic: JJ weet mos....
mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6463
JJ weet mos....
October 21, 2012, 15:08:40

Sapp any insights into the latest exploits of your protege?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10267
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 21, 2012, 19:08:05

Mozart

NOTHING will change Saffex's mind - you should know by now.   During the last half of the CC series - Engelbrecht was match after match the worst backline player in the Bulls side - but Saffex refuse to admit that.

You ask about Engelbrecht - but what about Hougaard???????? 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2935
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 21, 2012, 19:14:26

 and to think the Bulls are playing him instead of Johan Sadie. Sadie was excellant last year for the Stormers when he got his chances. The Bulls have blamed Sadie for their defensive woes but JJ does not seem to use his body when he tackles. His tackling technique is like a zombie with his arms straight out. 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 10:56:18

What was wrong with JJ? He had a few bullet passes thrown at him in crap wet conditions and tackled well. In the conditions, no centre on the day stood out , not that match and nor the WP one, so whats your point?

As for Hougaard, Mike he got charged down - why is that? Lets see if you are bright enough to work that out?


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10267
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 13:32:15

Saffex

As to the passes to Engelbrecht - yes the condicence were poor - but the other players did not knock on when balls were passed to them - why Engelbrecht?

I want to remind you of the removal of Hougaard as a scrummie from the Springbok team.  One of  the main reasons was obviously charged-down kicks in the tests.   He came back to the Bulls as a scrummie and what happened?   Two kick chargedowns from virtually the same spot within minutes of its other - the second one preceeding the try scored by the Sharks.  

I think the opposition worked out Hougaard and knows exactly how to play against him - hence the chrge-down kicks.

And then there wa also the case where Reinach robbed him of the ball after he tried to attack.   Bad news that one - sorry to say.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1390
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 13:40:24

i tend to think there is a lot of overhype over certain players and some can handle the spotlight and others cant.....can JJ play...yes he can but he is being butcherd at the blue bulls aka backline players graveyard...so in terms of career development he has made some bad choices in his career in moving to the bulls that has no culture of developing backline players and skills.

 

he might actually learn and build on his skillset at the kings from next year on. as saffex said there has been some basic schoolboy type of errors of players throwing torpedos in very very bad weather ext but once again that shows some poor attention to detail from coaching staff not to make mention of it and from the players side as well. its just common sense but it seems our players lack that understanding


mozart

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 6463
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 14:42:34

These guys like JJ who can't tackle after all the rugby they have played, never learn how to tackle. It's a foreign thing. Spies is the same, he can grab and hold a player, he can't execute a low tackle. Add to that JJ's inability to read defences and you have a guy who is simply lost a centre.

 

I would have said move him to wing.....but now the hands issue has emerged. Destined for obscurity.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 16:49:31

Exactly carpet, these clowns on here clearly know stuff all about the game and more importantly make crap up when it comes to certain players.

Now according to Moz, JJ can't tackle when in fact he executed technically perfect low tackles at least 4 or 5 times in that match on Sat. His defence was damn good.

But it gets better, now all of a sudden after one game, JJ has hand issues - what a load of bullshit. Conditions were poor and he had passes blasted at him, in those conditions the passes were damn poor - conditions like that call for the pop or shovel pass, not a spiral at pace and misdirected in the process. Good old Mike, the precise reason the other centres might have caught balls was because they were given sympathetic passes in poor conditions. But I trust you failed to pick up on that????

Moz you could write a book on the crap you write, my guess is that you have not seen half the games JJ has played in this years CC.

One would swear listening to you lot that the likes of Whitehead, Jordaan and Venter had far better games than JJ that day - what complete bullshit.

As for Hougaard dom Mike, the reason he gets charged down is because his forwards dont protect him. Go check the time he takes to kick versus Reinach - no difference at all. Difference is, the Sharks forwards were protecting their scrummie.

As for Reinach stealing a ball off Hougaard, so bloody what that happens - next you will be concluding from that, that Hougaard is not strong enough for CC rugby - get a bloody grip, I find it a little boring having to debate rugby with fools!!!!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10267
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 17:04:54

Saffex

Calm down - calm down

I do not think that Engelbtrscht at this stage is actually ready to play on higher elevel - there is too much refining required to even consider him for higher honours.   If it was only in the game on Friday that he did not look good enough - I would not make too many adverse remarks -  but in other CC games thiss eason he was no real bright spark.   The worst performance in fact was in the Bulls-WP game at Newlands where I said before - and you did not like it at all - that JP Du Plessis on a number of occassions really played the fool with him.   Whether you like it or not - Engelbrecht is not ready for Springbok selection - matter of fact he is very far from it.   My advice for him is to find another franchise and get better coaching - the Bulls is bad medicine as far as he is concerned.

As to Hougaard - if he cannot read games properly and does not realize that he should pass in a better position to kick than him - he should in fact not be playing as a scrummie.   Protection is necessary -and essential in fact - but he should not attempt dangerous kicks.   They call it ball sense - you know.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7569
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 17:31:43

Mike what kak, JJ at times this year has been a real find when it comes to outside centre play, the others being JP, Taute and Jordaan. During the S15, JJ was great at 13, displaying the kind of running we want to see in a Bok 13..........the lad is physical, whith good pace and above all a great step and swerve.

Sure he is new to the 13 role and will be exposed at times defensively as its different to wing - the same happened to JP, Taute and Jean who moved from 12. Check Conrad Smiths defensive stats for the S15, its one of the worst in the whole comp - does one then conclude that Smith cant tackle huh?

As for Hougaard, the option at the time for a box kick was the correct one - had his forwards played their part, there would have been no issues.

Hougaard has to play 9 for the Boks. JJ and Taute are our only real options at 13 and are both ready for the challenge - hell it wont take much to improve on the pathetic performance of Jean there all season. Jordaan is a possibility but I think he might just be too small - I'd play him on the wing and bring him in at 13 now and again.

Lambie at 15, Habana, JP, Rhule and Jordaan as wing options, JJ and Taute as options at 13, Frans at 12, Goosen and Jantjies at 10 and Hougaard at 9 - end of. I'd also be more than happy to see JP at 13


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10267
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 20:34:52

Saffex

Ok - I think you have some good points insofar as backline selection is concerned.     I relly have no problem with lambie at full back - but I do believe that Meyer will rather play him and Goosen at flyhalf than at full back.   Both are clever players and Lambie may be wasted at full back.      If that be th case - I would rather play Ludick as full back.

Pietersen and Habana as wings with Rhule as back up - no problem.

The center combination is problematic - I myself would prefer Steyn at 12 - but he was very iffy this year and did not really perform as expected.    In France he was from the games I saw only a crash ball player without off-;load capacity  and that was probably the reason why his contract was not renewed.   Since he played in tests this year - he really made one significant break - against the All Blacks in Dunedin - for the rest there was really very little to talk about.   I think we must see what he comes up next year in Super 15.    If he shows his rel capabilities that we know he has - yes then he could be the choice no 12 - if not then he must not be selected.   Where he can improve iis drawing in defenders and off-load balls effectively, - thus creting space for the outside players.    I have not seen one case where it happened  this year,   He probably will ,make the grade - if not he cannot be selected at 12 - it will be deva...sting to backline play to have a crah baller at 12.   Maybe playing outside of Lambie and Goosen will help him - so lets wait and see.

That brings me to the issue of the outside center.    I m not entirely happy with Taute in that position.    However, unlike Mozart I do believe he should be given a further chance in that position in thte End of Year Tour.    If in the first two tests he does not deliver - then they should use Jordaan.   You give very little credit to him.   I think he is a very clever player and in fact he is the key player oin the Sharks backline play.     He draws in defenders and off-load really well.   :udick was very good - but ,mosy of the attacks he is involved in resulted from space created by Jordaan.    He also looks for work constantly  abd caused a number of turnovers in possession.   Defence wise  - he is a touch above Taute and definitely much better than Engelbrecht in that Department.    He brings down forwards easily and often tackles back backline players causing problems such as turnovers.    At 96kgs I have no problem with him in all departments of center play.   If Steyn does not make the grade at 12 - I would move Jordaan to 12 - bearing in mind theta he played at 12 in the Super 15 finl and hndled SBW very well through sound defece.

To be quite frank - I firmly believe Engelcrecht hs not shown enough to qualify for selection at this stage.   I would like to see what he, Taute and Jordaan produce in the Super 15 next year - before making up my mind as to whome I see as the center combination that could take us into the future.

When it comes to scrummie play - I have still serious reservations about Hougaard.    I have now seen Reinach playing on a number of occassions and he was exceptional on CC level.   He will definitely be the Shark scrumnmie in the Super 15 series next year and we will then see how he performs on higher level.   If he performs as well as he did on CC level - I would definitely prefer him to Hougaard as scrummie.    I believe that Hougaard is not really  a natural scrummie - whilst Reinach is one.   Lets rather wait and see how it pans out next year in  Super 15.     Hougaard may be disadvantaged because he will play behind a forward pack that is substantilally weaker than the Sharks one and will have Steyn as flyhalf.    However, lets not argue about that one.- we will be able to get a clearer picture in Super 15 next year - if the Bulls played him - and npot Vermaak as their scrummie of choice.   

We gave a completely different point of view on Jantjies - I do not rate him at all - and you do.    Personally he will have to be a real star next year in he Stormers backline for me to change my opibnion.   I suspect that in the end he woul be dropped by the  Stormers from their startng line up - because of a variety of reasons.   We will also get a clearer picture about his capabilities in Super 15 next year.   

For the end of year tour I think that Meyer may be tempted to bring in Ludick at full back and play Taute at 13 - if  Taute does not prform well enough Meyer is likely to bring Jordaan into the mix.   Lambie will most likely be used at flyhalf and Pienaar as scrummie - especially since th latter is more familiar with wet playing conditions.   However, the joker in the pack remains Reinach - but I would prefer it if he plays first in a full Super 15 series - the most likely scenario.   

Nobody really knows whether De Villiers will be able to tour - if he does not heaven only knows what meyer will do.    He would not like to play two newbies at  center - but if he does it will most likely be Jordaan at 12 and Taute. at 13.    I would definitely not like to see De Jongh anywhere near the backline again.


Jalapeno!

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 602
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 20:41:03

JJ Englebrecht look like a v ordinry player who was fast tracked into the Bok side only cuz H Meyer started off trying 2 make the Bull all Bokke. Not even Meyer is so biased that he could stick with useless donkeys like Englebrecht and JacPot.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2935
RE: JJ weet mos....
October 22, 2012, 20:49:25

 CleverMike-

I have seen references on a few of your posts that Racing Metro chose to not renew Frans Steyns contract. 

This surprised me.

I searched in Google to see if I could find articles about Racing

Metro not renewing his contract in the link below, however the only source that has published this in Google seems to be you- 

https://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&gl=uk&tbm=nws&q=frans+steyn&oq=frans+steyn&gs_l=news-cc.3..43j43i400.1985.4081.0.4438.11.5.0.6.1.1.185.446.3j2.5.0...0.0...1ac.1.bo-05QNjG6w#q=frans+steyn+contract+not+renewed&hl=en&safe=off&gl=uk&sa=X&ei=ZJOFUIuRKI3D0AWGvoHIBA&ved=0CC8Q6wYwAA&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_cp.r_qf.&fp=4a762d82895734c9&bpcl=35466521&biw=1241&bih=584

 

your are ranked number 3 in the SERP (search engine results page). The other search results just have meta description snippets about

other players not having contracts renewed, but it is only your post

that states this.

I think this may be in accurate in this instance.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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