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2750 Topic: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
mozart

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That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 20, 2012, 21:15:01

.....looks to go down memory lane, like the time Januarie ran right over Brent Russell. When will they realise this kid Jantjies is Captain Calamity and feeble to boot.


Beeno1

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RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 20, 2012, 21:25:33

Give some credit jantjes did stand up and continue - hardly feeble!

I think ou snapster though will have some explaining to do as to how poor JJ was for the bulle.

 


Beeno1

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Posts: 10904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 20, 2012, 21:28:56

Give some credit jantjes did stand up and continue - hardly feeble!

I think ou snapster though will have some explaining to do as to how poor JJ was for the bulle.

 


clevermike

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Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 20, 2012, 21:29:51

Mozart

We should know by now that Jantjies is mediocre.   I did not see the whole match as a result of a thunderstorm - but from what I saw Jantjies was not up to standard.   He still prefer hospital passes.   He tried to attack the gain line three times - the one time he gave an inside flat pass and the recipient gained about three meters.   The second time he threw a wild pass that the recipient could not catch - the third time he went what Stranski called "without conviction" and there was a turnover.  

For the record that last kick of his cost the Lions a try at the end of the game - that really showed rank stupidity - end of story.

This guy really is a liability for a team - no real asset.  


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7799
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 20, 2012, 21:58:55

HasBeen this is what Rugby 365 said: "It included three missed penalties by flyhalf Elton Jantjies, who seemed to lose his composure after a huge hit from Gio Aplon."
 

 

The way this kid wanders laterally holding up the pass was bound to get him smashed, he should thank his lucky stars it wasn't by Kieran Reid. And when he passes, the defenders have usually deciphred the whole thing and the receiver gets man and ball.

 

If we get the kid for the Stormers it's going to be another Luke Watson phase.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 20, 2012, 22:26:42

Mozart

In the game against the All Blacks he never tried to attack the gain line - he stood too far back for Read to get to him before his hospital passes to De Villiers.   In other words - get rid of the ball before he can get tackled.  

Tonight he thought he could take a chance and try attacking - because he really knows that possible Springbok selection may come his way.   However - that produced nothing at all - so it really was not up to standard.

By the way - the Aplon tackle would have one effect only - he wouldeven stand further back in the pocket than he normally does and kick away or pass balls quickly to make surea tackle of that nature will not happen again.

Did I see  it wrongly - towards the end Jantjies was moving away from the ball carrier so that it would not be necessary to try to be involved in a tackle?    


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 21, 2012, 07:41:21

Mozart

I saw the tackle that you referred to at last.   Jantjies seems to shrink and drop the ball in what appears to be panic before the tackle was actually made.   I can remember another more or less similar incident - where in a previous match a high ball was kicked and he had to catch the ball - facing some charging players.   He chickened out and did no even attempt to catch the ball - just stood and watch as it dropped  about 2 to  3 meters in front of him and then attempted to tackle the opposing player from behind after the latter got the ball in the process - he rarely try and tackle players from the front in a face-to-face situation - and if he does it is very feeble attempts.

Fear of being tackled can be one of th reasons why he off-loads balls so quickly to players that are really in a worse position than him and then have to take the hard tackle - this being known as hospital passes.

I have always felt that Jantjies is in fact not a brave player and really a liability in defence.   Those are the main reasons why I do not rate him as a player of quality.   I think the opposition has "worked him out" and the effect will be a further downward slide in performances.   My prediction is that the Stormers will play him in a few games early in Super 15 next year - realize they made a huge mistake - and drop him from the starting team altogether.   


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7799
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 21, 2012, 14:55:08

We annoint these guys way too early, based on perceptions and form in lesser games. We know nothing about a player's test potential until he performs at test level. It applies to Jantjies, Taute and Mvovo. But it also applies to Goosen, who we all agree has huge potential. He still has to show he can do it in tests, and his Gaffie like showing against NZ was a wake up call.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 21, 2012, 19:48:51

Mozart

I fully agree with you about Jantjies and Mvovo - but I disagree with you about Goosen and Taute.  

Taute made an unholy mess up in the game against the All Blacks - but I do believe that he has potential to improve and that with decent coaching he will be a good player.   Not so sure about him as a center - I would rather see him as a full back.   However, I do think he can only get better and believe he should be given a further chance.  

The question is what better have we got at center?   De Jongh is a real joke and the only other player with more potential than Taute is Jordaan.   He is an all-round player that does not hesitte to tackle and effectively bring down the opposing forwards and he also can be found where critical problems exist or where there is a chance of a turnover.   Good passing game as well and very speedy.   Probklem is Saffex thinks he is too light to be effective - but I do not agree with him there.   He really performs way above his weight.

Anyway - I think Meyer should continue with development of Taute and Jordaan as key future backline players.

I looked at the All Black test repeatedly and could not find any reason for your criticism of Goosen.   You apparently did not realize that he was a special target of the All Blacks on that day.   I could not find any mistakes he made in the 25 minutes he played - bar the two penalties he missed.   You said that he made a feeble tackle of Whitelock - but by that time Goosen was already injured and being treated on the field.    When he noticed what was going on with the movement he go up from the treartment position and ran over to try and prevent the try.   Even though you criticzed him for making a weak tackle - he did something that 90% of the players would not even attempt.   Anyway he did tackle Whitelock - but to near to the line to prevent a try.

I think that Goosen will prove to be the best flyhalf we have had for years - in any event I also think that he needs physical and  coaching development - after all he was very successful on Super 15 level until he was injured - what else can be expected from a youngster?

Jantjies has no  capacity to develop any further - he really is the present embodiment of Earl Rose - and I don't think he will ever make the grade.   Mvovo needs a huge amount of furthe expereiene and coaching before he can be realisitically assessed.

 


Saffex

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Posts: 8498
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 10:58:37

Jantjies had a damn good game as he always does - brilliant touches


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 13:23:34

Saffex

Wirh due respect my friend - there is a huge difference between what you regard as brilliant and what I regard as such.   To my mind his "brilliance" at times was an embarrasment insofar as I am concerned.   Looks like a yellow belly to me.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 14:24:43

tackle was a beauty, right up there with reads tackle on vermeulen in the dunedidn test.

despite aplons size, hes put on some masive hits in his time, im still cringing from that tackle he did on franks when he put him on his ass, a puny little sppeedster like that, on a 100kg+ All Black prop, WTF??? o_O

i do think that janties needs a bit more credit then he has been getting though, i see a tremndous amount of potential in him and while i agree that goosen has got talent to boot as well, hes done nothing in the Bok jersey which says he has the edge over janties.
IMO, after the EOYT, were going to see the best of janties now thats hes a little bit more familiar with the ins and outs of Boks rugby and starts facing nations who are harly ever in the top 3 on the IRB world ladder.
 


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7799
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 14:48:51

Have to disagree Sasu....I have yet to see a backline functioning properly outside Jantjies. Those inside flips and chip kicks confuse his fellow players more than the opposition.

 

 

There is no rythm to a Jantjies backline.....no purpose.....just confusion about what is going to happen next. And the defensive weakness at 10 is an invite to the party..


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 15:37:07

Jantjies will never be a top-class international flyhalf. Maybe an average bench flyhalf, but never a topclass go-to player.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 17:07:33

@mozart,

the lions who won the currie cup in 2011 was IMO a well fuctioning backline and janties was freaking brilliant in that series.

i know hes made a lot of booboos in 2012, but EOYT plus the stormers in 2013 are really going to get the best out of him and he will be surprising plenty in 2013, as will jp pieterson at 13, :o)


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 17:07:35

@mozart,

the lions who won the currie cup in 2011 was IMO a well fuctioning backline and janties was freaking brilliant in that series.

i know hes made a lot of booboos in 2012, but EOYT plus the stormers in 2013 are really going to get the best out of him and he will be surprising plenty in 2013, as will jp pieterson at 13, :o)


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 17:29:50

sasu

Nicely put - if we want to go dowmn to a rating of 6 - keep Jantjies at flyhalf.   He looked good on CC level alst year - this year in the games he played he was poor.   Lets however, accept that he is a good CC player, a reasonable flyhalf on Super level and NOT fit to play on international level.

I know you wantus to go down in the ratings - but this is blatant. LOL


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8498
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 18:13:26

Mike thank goodness there is a huge difference in what we see in rugby players - I'd be a very unhappy rugby follower if I saw rugby through your or Moz's eyes - in fact I would not watch rugby in total


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 20:49:58

@clevermike,

LMAO, u got it all wrong buddy, i am and have been a very big fan of Bok rugby, though they will always come second to the mighty All Blacks, both in prefernce and in fact, :oP.

but seriously, in the Bok jersey i saw nothing from goosen that was remarkably better then janties perfromances in the Boks jersey, and with janties finding his groove, plus not having the lions figthing tooth and nail for little to no reward, im sure hes going to deliver big time.

janties was showing real nice touches at the beginning of the 2011 spXV, and then that injury plus the lions typical rubbish season support, might have addled his confidence, something that once janties gets back, will have as a possible Bok 10 incumbent, o_O

and i dont want to see the Boks at 6th, but i am curious as to how low they have been. but the way i see it is like will ferrel in talageda nights, if u aint first, ur last, LMAO, :oD
 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 21:06:16

Sasu

Sorry I should have added LOL to that message.   Really thought of it as a joke.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7799
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 22, 2012, 22:24:01

The Currie Cup is only useful as a negative indicator. Players that do well in the CC have to confirm their form at higher levels ......Jantjies hasn't.

 

Goosen likewise has to confirm his S15 form at test level.....but he is dangerous ball in hand.....in that sense he adds another dimension. He showed that against Oz. Jantjies seems deeper in the pocket every time I see him.


blobbok

Status: Squad member
Posts: 553
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 23, 2012, 10:39:59

http://youtu.be/KFYWkEIRWiI


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 23, 2012, 12:33:13

saSUEOOOOOO please! Here you are trying to talk us out of Goosen. Goosen, who I repeat is under 21 next year!!!!!! - please allow that to register, was going great guns in the Super 15. Giv e him two years and he will take over from wee dan the ex man.

Jantjes will have  a great opportunity with the Stormers and I hope he takes it.  Time will tell the tale of who has it and who doesnt. At the moment Goosen and Lambie are ahead. We shall see.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 23, 2012, 14:14:08

Beeno

I knowyou always support the Stormers and WP - but I think they made a huge mistake in going for Jantjies - he will let you down.   Don't say I did not warn you.

Initially Jantjies did quite well - because the opposition did not know what he is going to do.   In the meantime they realize that he himself  actually presents no threat and  they have worked out his passing game.    They know he stands deep in the pocket (to avoid being tackled himself)  and if he moves forward he continously pass to an inside player before reaching the gain line - normally a flat pass (sometimes inaccurate) and the recipient is in a hopelss position - people regard that as hospital passes.   The second alternative is that he moves a bit forward and thn pass a ball to a player virtiually behind him - same story.   The third passes goes very early  while he runs slightly sideway to the inside center - also flat - so they opposing team goes for the inside center and he is a dead duck.

In essence his strategic kicking and reliving kicking is on par with those of Morne Steyn  - another deep in the pocket player.    Not very affective at all.   The latter mostly result in handing over of possession.  

His defence is very poor insofar as face-to-face tackles are concerned - he only tackes players from behind effectively.   Under pressure he panicks like he did in the Aplon case on Saturday and there is no way he would even attempt to catch high balls under pressure.

All-in-all he is a good goalkicker - but under pressure not so good either - like happened on Saturday and thelst penalty kick he missed in Soweto..  

Watch out - his teammates will soon enough did what they did to him in th Soweto test and cut him out insofar as passing is concerned - especially because of mistakes like hospital passes made by him.

I  think they will play him in the first few matches in Super 15 next year - and then drop him from the squad ;like a hot potato - mark my words.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5810
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 23, 2012, 19:27:11

@ben10,

ive always liked janties, but like many here i have also said that goosen is the future, but hes u21 and has already missed more games in 2012 to injuries then either McCaw or carter who are both over 30 (@mike, -_o)
different strokes for different folks i know, but i cant help but think of brussow who i also rate big time, yet his frail frame has let him down so many times and why he has only accumulated 20 tests for the Boks in a 5 year career, o_O very unimpressed by that and given the (to coin a word from ben10) mongs in charge of SA rugby dont deem to either know whats best for their players, or even care, i have a sneaky suspicion that  goosen is heading down a similar path.
BTW, where is brussow at the moment???

but back to janties, the kid is claas and after getting first hand tutelage from spencer and with the rough edges being polished at the stormers, hes going to be real game changer for the SA rugby and just might be the x factor the stormers need to get that elusive spXV title.


 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11904
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 23, 2012, 20:38:51

Sasue

I don't like what I have seen of Jantjies.   However, I may just change my mind if he performs very well for the Stormers.   Still don't think it is likely - but if it is a faint possibility so watch out what happens next year - I might just change my mmind after all.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3408
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 23, 2012, 20:57:38

 Sasuke- Brussouw is finished. He is out for another 6 months. Every time he returns from injury he is slower.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 7799
RE: That tackle where Too Small Aplon smeared Jantjies.....
October 23, 2012, 22:13:47

Brussouw is a small engine operating at high revs. Engine life is likely to be short. If some of our physical specimens like Spies had this guy's heart, they would have shaken the rugby world.


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