The Ruckers Forum

Forum » Rugby » General Stuff » Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
Login to reply
 
 
 
2678 Topic: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12017
Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 10:08:43

I never personally criticize people or their culture - since that would be very wrong.   Every country in the World have some things they are proud about and that should be appreciated by all people in the World.   I want to quote two examples I was involved with personally and that showed something about this country not always appreciated by people.

About a decade afo I went to the Groot Constantia Homestead and there saw a group of Australian Tourists.   They were amazed about paintings dating back to the 15th century and the really exceptional antique Japanes porcelainn and other antiwues on display and asked how come that type of thing is found in Cape Town.   They never realized that by the time the first people orifinating from Europe first settled in Australia and - for that matter New Zealand - Cape Town was already a major trade port and an important center in itself.   May people settling in the Cape brought antques with them and estbalished a culture that transcended local insulance and assured a much wider appreciation of the rest of the world.

The other incident I wish to mention is that I attended and in facr delivered a paper at a meeting on water provision.   At the meeting one local pperson said that they appreciate the professional and technical guidance that could be provided by England.  The respobse was that they actually get their advice from South African Engineers - who are leaders in the field of civicl engineering and that there is nothing they can teach South Africans in the relevant field.

It is no wonder that with the broader outlook on life and the expertise in professional fields - medical, economics, engineering, etc.- you find South Africans working all over the world and making a substantial contribution in the countries where they work.   That does not mean they lose interest in their country of origin.   I am therefore not surprised that for instance so many South Africans living overseas retain their support of the Springboks.   To think that because they left South Africa to settle in for instance New Zealand or Australia and suddebly found that their country of residence becomes the alpha and omega insofar as  sport teams are concerned - is not realistic.    

The latter assumption shows a lack of understanding of the world at large and of insular thinking.   It does not appreciate that the world has changed and the outlook of educated people have become more global than many people living in relative isolation imagine.

It is one thing to criticize the Springbok rugby team on performance basis - the fiercest critics are in any event local people - it is quite another thing to criticize a country that relatively few people know anything about or maybe knows something which they read in the media.

Under the circumstances I would like to call on people not to criticize and generalize on countries or their people.   Lets keep criticism to performance of and issues relating to rugby -  to be civil and factual  in dealing with issues related to rugby - and to do the same when it comes to rugby as a game.  


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 626
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 10:32:59

 Mikey, if you want to keep things civil then perhaps you shouldn't describe the NZ under 21's forward pack as "disgustingly poor". A bit rich for a team that made the Final this year.

You aren't as blatant as Beeno or Logic but there's always an undercurrent to your posts about the ABs as in your post about the 7s team, which of course has come back to bite you!


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 10:42:36

 Nothing has come back to bite him Moolaa..Once again, the stars were aligned for NZL. Have a look at the game against Kenya..NZL scraped through..SA is 4 tries to the good at half time...We not interested in what happens now. We OWNED your boys yesterday...

 

Only reason me and Beeno are so blatant is coz we sick of your guys shit and constant knocking of the Boks and all things South African.


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 11:00:40

" Does not look very good for the All Blacks does it?"

 

Mike's words, then NZ goes on to make the final.  Mike takes 1 foot out of his gob and replaces it with the other.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12017
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 11:08:18

modaa

Please note that I limit my criticism of issues strictly to rugby.   Sorry I upset you about the issue of the Under 20 team.   The forwards  were indeed not up to standard - even though they reached the finals.   The backs were very good - as is normal in New Zealand Rugby.  

Please do not get me wroong - especially since in reality I am an admirer of New Zealand rugby and said that on a number of occassions.   When I do display - as you say - an "undercurrent"  in what I wrote - it perhaps relate to my support of the Springboks or my country  - nothing more.   It does not mean that anybody in the world is above criticism - we all are human - and incidentally that includes the All Blacks.   In fact I am sure you cannot expect from me to drop everything and become a psychophant of the All Blacks.  I am not one insofar as the Springboks are concerned - why should I be one insofar as the All Blacks is concerned?

What I wote last night was what actually happened in that game - I know that the judgement at that time was questionable - but let me explain something - I never brag or do anything similar.   I try and put things in a factual context - the way I see it at a specific point - not at anything else. 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12017
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 11:38:19

poi-e

Yes I got bitten and the All Blacks 7's reached the final.   Big joke though - they were bad in that final - were they not?   Much worse than the Sprringbok performance against  Fiji was.   My thinking remains the same on the issue of the present All Blacks 7's team - really not up to standard at all.  


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1903
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 11:45:37

 They were terrible in the final not to mention the scrape past Kenya who South Africa absolutely smashed... Guess they were just lucky that things worked out that they played the weakest team in the cup semi's..Weakest team just...really could have gone either way between Kenya and NZL ;-)


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 12:24:20

 Well you've proven yourself such a great thinker Mike, were you aware that a big chuck of our regular sevens team are still involved with ITM cup.  

So tell us more about the weaknesses in NZ Sevens setup....after winning 10 titles out of the last 13 do you still believe our Sevens planning is not up to scratch??  Let me educate you, Sevens is seen as a springboard to higher honours in NZ so it's not unusual for our Sevens stock to be bare at the start of the season as S15 teams often sign up the latest Sevens talent, Julian Savea, Ardie Savea, Declan O'Donnell just to name 3 from recent years...but hey we lost in the final at the Gold Coast last year and still went on to win the series so you'll have to forgive NZ'ers for not hitting the panic buttons just yet, especially when we finished ahead of your lot...again.  

 

Only a complete dope would write NZ off after the first tournament of the series...probably the same kind of dope that would predict a 10+ win for the Springboks against the AB's at Soccer city....how'd that end up for you Mike?

 

 

 

 


DbDraad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 876
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 16:53:06

Poi, our 7ns players does not even make the Curry cup squads, so what's your point?


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 18:12:45

 Well I guess you have an advantage right there, for one outside of injury Paul Treu's squad won't be subjected to the same amount of annual flux Titch's 7s squad is...that said Titch is probably the best talent scout in NZ, the way he has continued to churn out a team that consistently challenges for (and more often than not wins) the Sevens circuit despite having his squad raided every year in year out is truly remarkable


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12017
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 20:58:38

poi-e

 Agree with you 100% on your last post - Titch fully deserve to be in the hall of fame for his contrbution to Rugby. .


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 21:02:45

 Well that's common ground Michael, he's a very astute 7s coach, for what it's worth Paul Treu is also held in very very high regard in NZ also.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12017
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 21:46:41

poi-e

Just as a matter of interest - how many countrie outside of New Zealand have you visited?

I bekieve that it is essential to widen your knowledge of the world by going to foreign countries and see for yourself how people should travel and learn from your exposure to other countries and learn more about mankind.

I have visited Greece (twice), Turkey (twice), Germany (3 times), France (3 times), England (4 times) The Nerherlands (twice), Austria (3 times), Scottland (twice),  Hungary, Slovakia, Russia, Australia (3 times), Lesotho, Swaziland and Mozambique.   In some cases I went to look at historical places, but in the case of visits to England, France  and Australia I went to watch rugby tests - I was in France for 6 weeks in 2007 to watch the WC Games.   I also went to watch tennis at Roland Garros.

Two of the visits were the result of an invitation to me to address United Nations conferences where I had to do presentations on issues relating to community development..

The above has taught me one thing - and that is to respect all people in the world and also to respect their culturre.   That does not remove my right to speak my mind though - and criticoze things I believe could be improved.

Try it - it really works wonders

        


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 14, 2012, 21:59:13

 I don't see why visiting other countries is a pre-requisite for respecting other people's cultures but since you asked I live in the UK, have visited France, Ireland, USA, South Africa, Australia, Japan, Korea, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Belgium, Cook Islands...probably missing a couple out.

 

You seem to be trying to be drawing a link between criticism of someone's posts and intolerance of culture...it's a forum for goodness sake, apart from the country/rugby team you support I wouldn't have the foggiest who culture/colour/religion you are, nor do I care, but if your point you make is shit one you can expect to be called out on it. 


World Champs

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 118
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 01:45:53
My posts have been deleted due to profanity, racial remarks and slander.


nukefreekiwi

Status: Squad member
Posts: 441
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 05:36:52

 Pfffft. Mike the pompous prat trying to shill his caustic, poorly referenced and inane drivel as the result of a superior cultural awareness thanks to his (alleged) extensive travels abroad. Lolz. Unbokingbelievable. I can't recall EVER reading a more deluded, arrogant and selfobsessed epistle in all my years perusing this site. Apparently when mike criticises the all blacks it is meant to be constructive but when we reply in kind, highlighting the long list of springbok shortcomings we are "insular".  Bwahahahaha. What a prize prat. As poi e accurately noted, mike is the poor mans beeno. Mike the deluded bok stroker. 

 

BTW. I've also travelled extensively.  Does that mean I am similarly endowed with an über cultural sensitivity?  


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12017
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 06:45:27

Nukefreekiwi

I wrote the above thread because I wanted to convey an important message to you and the other Kiwi supporters on this board.   Neither Sou5th Africa nor New Zealand is the center of the universe.    We are small cogs in a huge machine.   We therefore have no right to attack other people and their culture.

When for instance people on this site attack the Haka or make insulting remarks about New Zealand I have always objected strongly to those remarks.   You may have  noticed that from previous posts on this site - I even went so far toa sk the editor  to ban an SA supporrter who grossly insulted the people of New Zealand.

You and Wotld Champs have one tendency in common -  you are narrow-minded twits that is insular in your thinking.   You have no idea that there are other people with different ideas - to which they are fully entitled -and you write insulting and often derogatory comments on people,  because they do not support some elements in All  Black rugby .   You indeed shows a degree of immaturity that is beyond words and implied they are mini-gods purely because they are All Black rugby players.   That makes any criticism of them in any format totally out of bounds and lead to attacks on people who dare to say something negative about you idols.  

I wrote what I did because I wanted a young and I think inherently nice poster like poi-e not to become the poison you are - and to view things on a broadminded basis - not on the boom basis of World Champs and the idiotic basis you epitomized.   I think you in particular are despicable - so please shut up and do not continue to show your massive stupidity on this Board.   

 


nukefreekiwi

Status: Squad member
Posts: 441
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 08:01:47

 Lolz. Mike the prize prat managing to bore the board yet again with another of  his loquacious, holier than thou , self righteous sermons. Only a prat at the height of ignorance can claim the moral high ground, condemning contrary posters for daring to call you unflattering names whilst simultaneously hurling a barrage of impotent and fetid ad hominens in return. Oh but keep them coming mike. So far you have illogical smallbok convinced but getting your churlish side kick to endorse your verbose hate speeches has no more merit than Eugene Terre Blanche gaining support from brainless skinheads at a pro nazi rally. Lolz. 


Ka Mate

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 34
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 08:14:59

Yup, that would seem to be the way things work on this board. The Yarpies try to convince themselves that their crap SteroidBoks are not the AB bitches and they call us all sorts of names but then, if we do the same back to them, then they whine and cry like babies and they type up long and self-pitying sermons like the one above.

 

I thought the Poms were bad but the Yarpies are the worlds biggest losers and whiners.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12017
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 09:30:04

Nukefreekiwi

Really nuts you are - mad as a hatter.   You did not understand what I tried to convey and decided to pick on a few nutters in SA to imply that all people in this country are in cahoots with the fringe lunatics.   Bad news that one.    

I gather you are either a fringe mad nutter yourself or very near to them.

Kai Matu

Sorry I am not whining - you must be new on the Board.   The membership of one SA member - who wrote unjustified attacks on the New Zealand people was terminated on my request by the editor.   I have never attacked any Neew Zealand members personally and tried to fight abuse of the site by  both sides.

I have also been severely critical of the Springboks and their performances.   A lot of SA meembers went for me in the relevant regard.   However, when I pointed out what I believe are relatively minor issues pertaining to the All Blacks, and major ones pertaining to the Junior All Blacks and now the 7's team - I am made out to be arally bad bastard by the New Zealand members.   That is very wrong and unjustified.

One example where I got it completely wrong is where I questioned the injury to Goosen and possible irregular play leading to it.   I have reviewed the match carefully and could not find any evidence to that effect.   I particularly looked at the incidents referred to by the New Zealand members and found they  had it 100% correct.   Read went for the ball and hit Goosen in the process - nothing wrong with that.   He no doubt was injured there and the injury was aggravated by his attampted tackle of Whitelock.   The one issue that originally bothered me was when Frank fell on him after he made a tackle.   That was just before he finally left the field.   His final departure was prrobably the result of all three incidents mentioned - the last one showing rank stupidity - the others fully justified in a rugby sense.

  

 

    


Ka Mate

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 34
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 10:34:25

New on the board? Gee, what was the critical clue, Sherlock . . . the fact that I only have 4 posts?

 

So you're the tell-tale who went crying to the Mods about World Champs? The only surprise is that you admit this. What a crybaby!


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 10:47:12

 Good man Mike, but what time did the Franks incident occur?


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11103
RE: Insular Thinking - A problem in many countries
October 15, 2012, 10:55:45

I see a few kiwi feather have been severely rattled.  Nuked and Ka Mate please take your medication and relax we are trying to maintain a tone on the board which you are possibly not used to!

Hahahahhahaha - lighten up and live oaks! Mike is a great guy and hardly the person you should be at odds with.


Leave a reply:

You need to be logged in to leave a reply.
 
 

From The Sideline