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2642 Topic: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
Beeno1

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Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 08:52:40

Ex Keo

The possibility of WP dropping out of the Currie Cup Premier Division has contributed to the decision to push fatigued Springboks to play this Saturday.

Allister Coetzee was the Bok assistant coach between 2004 and 2007 before he linked up with the Stormers and Western Province in 2008. He is well aware of the manner in which rugby is administrated in South Africa, having been involved with the Boks and a provincial union, and knows how the contracting system is such that the provinces dictate how much rugby the Boks play over the course of a season.

On Wednesday, Coetzee explained his decision to include all seven returning Springboks in the starting line-up for the final Currie Cup league match against the Cheetahs.

Flanked by a visibly exhausted Jean de Villiers (This player hads been played into the ground), Coetzee admitted that it was a not an ideal situation if one looked at it from a Bok perspective, but as a coach of a province that pays the players’ salaries, his hands were tied.

It’s the way the contracts work in this country, the players belong to the province,’ said Coetzee. ‘Unless there is a change to the structure, that is the way it’s going to be.’

WP are currently in third place on the Currie Cup log, but if they lose this weekend and the other two results go against them, they could finish in last position.

This would see them playing a promotion-relegation series against the Eastern Province Kings to determine who will feature in the 2013 Currie Cup. (Actually doesnt seem much of a threat then)

It is therefore in WP’s interest to play all of their available Boks, no matter their state of fatigue. If there wasn’t such a risk of dropping down to the First Division, Coetzee may have given a few of the top players a much needed break.

If you look at what we are all facing, the reality of being relegated, well you have to have your Boks at your disposal,’ he said.

‘That’s what unions are going through right now, nobody wants to get relegated. If we were different position on the log, then maybe I wouldn’t have played all the Boks. Now we have to play our best team.’

It was thought at the beginning of the season that the Boks would be excused from the Currie Cup given their extensive workload in the Super Rugby competition and heavy Test schedule (Not to mention poor rotational policies by the Super 15 franchises). But De Villiers suggested last week that the Boks would return for domestic duty at the conclusion of the Rugby Championship, and when he said it, you got the feeling that he wasn’t happy about it.

Coetzee confirmed on Wednesday that the thought process of using the Boks in the Currie Cup had changed recently because of the prospect of relegation.

Indeed, it is not only WP who have loaded their team with Boks. The Bulls have stacked their team with returning Boks and it’s likely that the Sharks will do the same when they name their side later in the week.

De Villiers is currently nursing a hamstring injury and will only train at WP’s captain’s run on Friday. It is a situation that highlights the faults of the South African system, and WP can’t be blamed for working within the given parameters.

If the South African system was similar to that of New Zealand, a country that centrally-contracts their players so that they are managed accordingly, they wouldn’t be in a position where a fatigue-related injury is a probability rather than a possibility.

De Villiers said that he wasn’t happy with the situation and, more damningly, suggested it wasn’t likely to change. It’s the rugby player’s lot in South Africa to simply get on with it. (PATHETIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

‘It’s not really relevant what the players feel, it’s a decision that the administrators need to make,’ he said. ‘When you are needed, you need to step up. As long as the decision lies with the unions, it doesn’t matter what we as players feel.

We might gain more from something like central-contracting,’ admitted De Villiers. ‘Maybe we need to sit down and come up with a model that works for everyone.’

WE SURE HAVE A DUMB BUNCH RUNNING RUGBY IN THIS COUNTRY. IF YOU WANT TO KNOW NZ'S ONLY COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE IT'S THEIR ADMIN SIDE.  MADNESS RULES

 

 

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 09:10:06

The WP side

15 Joe Pietersen, 14 Gerhard van den Heever, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Jean de Villiers (c), 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Demetri Catrakilis, 9 Nic Groom, 8 Duane Vermeulen, 7 Don Armand, 6 Deon Fourie, 5 Andries Bekker, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Frans Malherbe, 2 Tiaan Liebenberg, 1 Steven Kitshoff.
Subs: 16 Scara Ntubeni, 17 Brok Harris, 18 De Kock Steenkamp, 19 Jebb Sinclair, 20 Louis Scrueuder, 21 Marcel Brache, 22 Gio Aplon.

To think we also have Burger, Elstadt, Kolisi, Koster, Pat Cillers, Rhodes and also hopefully Taute and Jantjes,  Howard, Duplessis etc etc. Man the chiefs have to know their grip on the title is as slippery as a bar of soap!! Will Sitting Bull survive the inevitable let down?

We need Taute, Jantjes and another class hooker to back up Tiaan. That will give us a very good squad.

MIke please do take note of what Butch james and Mitchell say about Jantjes and give the youngster a chance. Writing him down all the time is overstating your "case"

I deeply regret the departure of Deon Coetzee. The best small flanker in world rugby!  We also should not have lost Quinn Roux!


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 10:52:17

Fatigued........? ................Se gat man. The only ones with some degree of excuse are De Villiers and Have-a-banana.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 12:06:47

Bongo - can you please explain why nz are resting their abs? Its no tonly WP tha tis the concern - all the Boks are back in action aprt from some sharks Boks some of whom  who may be on the bench.

Idealy Bekker, Etzebeth, Jean and Habana should not be playing. For a very young player Etzebeth has played a lot of rugby. I also think Kitshoff has been overplayed.

By the way how is this for a Stormers  squad?

Harris, Kitshoff, Tiaan AN other,  Malherbe, Cillers, Carstens etc

Etzebeth, Bekker, Elstdat, Steenkamp

Burger, Vermuelen, Rhodes, Koster, Kolisi, Carr

Duvenage, Groom, Schreuder

Grant, Jantjes (Still to sign) Van Aswegan

Jean, De Jong, Du Plessis, Marcel

Habana, Aplon, Howard, Van der heever

Pietersen. Taute.

Quite correctly theStormers have been strengthening their ageing backline.

This is a very good squad. Nice blend of youth and experience. Has great depth and hence Coetzee MUST rotate his players. Some players of course can play in more than one position such as Elstadtetc.

But as I said I deeply regret the departure of Deon Fourie and Quinn Roux and note the need for another hooker who can play Super 15 rugby to complete the very rosy picture.

Could there be more signings on offer!!!!

 


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 12:31:42

What has happened to "WP/Stormers" breed their own great players and export them. We don't need imports"?


Bok -Bef$K

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 216
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 13:12:53

Shyte I missed the news about Fourie's departure. Where is he heading to?

That is a awesome squad, if Stormers do get the signings of Jantjies and Taute, then they do not have any excuses for failing in the playoffs.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 14:15:41

He is off overseas can't remember the club he is going to.

Funny how it has worked out. One was very upset about the loss of Sadie, Engelbrecht, Whitehead and the scrummie that went to the sharks but it has all been made good and better by these acqusitions and the arrival of youngters like Du Plessis etc who looks better than Sadie.

No, barring injuries and refs, we should put in another masterful performance and a title looks to be beckoning Bokbe.

Bongi we have exported quite enough over the years so its nice to be on the receiving end.

 


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 15:25:15

Be on the receiving end.....? Scavangers if you ask me. You stabbed the liosn in the back to get them out of the S15, then you jump in like vultures to feed on the remains.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10319
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 20:24:09

Beeno

The problem with the Stormers in 2012 was their inability to score tries.    The forwards were good - the backline got ample balls and it led to nothing.    They did not get a single four-try bonus point in any of their games.   Their saving grace which enabled them to reach the semis was their defence nd the fact that Grant had a  near to 100%  goalkicking record.

Is this problem going to be repeated in the 2013 season?    I think it will and the reason for that relates to their  flyhalf and centers.    Let me be more explicit.    They have Jantjies gojng to them but it should be borne in mind that  he is not really an attacking flyhalf at all.   He nomally tries to pass the ball quickly to the inside center or in some cases uses skip passes.    The passes he normally makes are very flat - some regard it as hospital passes - and any attack is usually stifled before the gain line is reached.   This type of play works well on CC - level where opposition teams often have defensive problems that allows linebreaks.   The  opposition On Super Series level will defend much better - eg It really did not work fo the Lions in Super 15 leve;  this year.  and I cannot see that it would work next year as well.   On the positive side Jantjies is a very good goalkicker - but  an attacking player he is definitely not.

The situation is that the flyhalf situation as  outlined results in the playmaker postition be moved from the flyhalf to the no 12 center - who must try and make space for the outside players to exploit.   This can be done by drawing in defenders and off-loading effectively.   I have always rated De Villiers highly - but he would have limited opprtunity to do just that.   Even if he succeeds in a limited number of cases - the question is what would follow?  

De Jongh scored only two tries in Super 15  this year - both against the Rebels.   He did not make a single line break at all - the tries resulted from space created by De Villiers.   He had an open try line in front of him - that led to the tries.   On his own he never made any effective attacking linebreaks of drew in defenders creating space for the wings to exploit.   Whenever he tried that the effect often was losing possession.

The situation with the new squad is even worse than it was last year.    The Stormers need players that can undertake attacking backline play - but with the situation as outlined above it is bound not to happen.    They need a stronger center combination than the unproductive combination of 2012.   De Villiers combined with De Jongh  was not effective - and other combnations needs to be developed.   I really think they should play a center combination of De Villers and Taute or De Villiers and J P Du Plessis.

I think they have a very strong forward pack and there can be no doubt about that,   However, forwards alone cannot win the trophy - they seriously need to review their backline situation and start to score tries - not only defend against teams and thus lessen their chances of scoring tries.

 


DbDraad

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 667
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 11, 2012, 23:02:26

Beeno, Koster will probably join Flow at Bath next year.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 12, 2012, 09:45:21

Ag no Draad!! That guy has talent. We need Louw back as well!   I suppose the budget bites again.

I see it is not a done deal though. Louw given his bok status and contract  now may think of  coming back perhaps?


moolaa

Status: Squad member
Posts: 542
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 12, 2012, 09:55:50

 Shouldn't be a problem Beeno. It's not like the WP Boks made any tackles last week in Soweto anyway. Would you like to borrow McSaint for a game or two?


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Coetzee forced to pick Boks to avoid threa tof relegation
October 12, 2012, 10:19:07

Nope Draadd we are a young side on the up. mcaaaaaaw also wouldnt pass our ethics control board a you well know!!!! 

But as for wee  mccaw see my post re mcaaw after match against Boks.


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