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2613 Topic: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3603
The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 04:56:17

 1. A slower pitch of the Northern Hemishphere. The All Blacks prefer a harder pitch where they can avoid the trench warfare. In worldcups in Europe their forwards are not physical enough to withstand a sequence of games of trench warfare. It would be impossibale for the All Blacks to play back to back teams like France, England and the boks and win all of the games. 

2. Mccaw, the  key player will be finished or close to finished.  Or Mccaw will be to slow to get to the rucks in order to lay on the opposition ball, play the ball on the floor. This is his standard tactic when the All Black forwards get dominated. Watch him in the first half against the boks especially, or when ever the boks forwards went though a quick phases.

3. A tactical kicker for field position and territory, Carter- He too should be finished or close to finished. Cruden is the in[removed]bent and he has proved that his tactical kicking needs much work in comparision to Carter. Carter can even take drop goals in tight games

4. The age of the All Black squad. The new forwards coming though are unlikely to be physical enough or battle hardened for 2015 to play the likes of France, England or South Africa.

-----

Games against Argentina on a slower field and also against South Africa at the Caketin showed the All Black forwards to be good in some areas, but not enough for trench warfare,

 


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 05:21:26

 Who knows what's going to happen in 2015. There's a lot of rugby to play before that and any things just pure speculation at this stage. All blacks have achieved several grand slams lately and have a fantastic record in that part of the world in recent times apart from 1 loss against France. Teams will start building more towards that  next year after bedding in new coaches this year  Im sure the All Blacks will have a good as chance as anybody but anything can happen in tournaments  It would be awesome if the final was a All Black v South Africa final. Be fitting that 1 of us should be first to 3 wins. 


World Champs

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 118
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 05:54:15

ABNZ - you cant count either Bok victories as legitimate

 

1995 - they poisioned our players and everyone knows that the French scored that try in the semi - cheating [removed]s and they call Richie a cheat lol

 

2007 - Bok didnt play NZ, Aus, France, Ireland, Wales, Scotland wow thats 6 of the top 8 teams so all the hype about Jake White being a great coach was all tyripe and SA won by default 

 

Boks have too much against them to win - no captain players too young, 10 man playing style, too many glasmen in their team and a coach that doesnt know what hes actually doing so sad really looking at the state of Bok rugby


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12596
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 06:50:40

World Champs

I gave details as to why the All Blacks will not repeat their victory in 2015 elsewhere - but I would like to comment on one issue.   The players now too young  will be at best playing capacity three years from now at an aveage age of 24.   I would rather build up younger players - then rely on older players past their prime.  I am sure that we will have a different captain sooner rather than later and that proper gyn work will considerably strengthen the youngsters and reduce their frailty insofar as injuries are concerned.

   


BonganiP

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 229
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 10:59:18

@WorldChimp. Not too wise to bring in the 2007 RWC and then question SA's opposition in the competition when the NZ had to deal with the "might" of the mighty Scotland, the mighty Italy, the mighty Romania and  the mighty Portugal and then failed misrably against France.

 

Then you mention Australia as well. They had to deal with the mighty Canada, Fiji, Japan and Wales, before failing misrably against England, who SA beat twice in the competition.

 

No my friend, if their is one victory that is rightfully and deservedly SA's, it is the 2007 RWC. We were up to it and the others failed. We cannot be blamed if you guys were not good enough. Who says that we would not have beaten you guys as well? My view is that we would probably have beaten you if we had to in 2007.

 

Somebody mentioned, on another thread, that we should avoid being hypothetical..............


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 11:10:51

 Bongani, one thing that can not be avoided is raw stupidity and ou world chump has that in abundance. Thanks for pointing out those facts to him...let me take over for the 1995 World Cup.

 

that whole cheating by poisoning is the biggest load of [removed] a sporting team has ever come up with..don't blame us because your boys [removed] themselves at the thought of playing us...poisoned players do not play 120 mins of rugby. That's what happens when ur only weapon doesn't work..Jonah Lomu... A lot like the team of today...when carter ain't there, things go pear...


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 666
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 11:17:10

 A ridiculous theory Sharkbok. On that basis no team has any chance of winning the 2027 WC as none of the current players will be there!

Take a good grip on yourself mate and make these predictions in 2014 when we all have an idea as to who's likely to be available.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 13:39:09

Well what will be of interest to me is how this pap ab pack shapes up in Europe. Who are they playing?

Susie - is this the lamest excuse ever offered? 120 minutes playing with food poisoning!!!!!!!!! Hahahahahahahahahaha if Kruger had been awarded the try he scored they would have been spared the extended embarrasment. Here we were just back into world rugby and winning the world cup - great stuff.

Jonu Lomu was flattened and got too scared to run. I recall Os Du Randt and Joost flatttening the guy and that was that. Jams Small also had his number. In fact if I recall it correctly Jonu never scored a try against us.

Yes the loss of Carter would be massive for the abs. He is a great flyhalf and flyhalf is the most influential position on the field. Now of course we have some misguided loonies talking about Goosen having a glass jaw etc. Well Goosen played  a number of Super 15 games as a teenager did he not?  He will do the conditioning and will be slotting penalties from 70 meteres and kicking huge touch finders and setting our backline alight - but wait to 2014 please gentlemen and kiwi bird brains.

Now of course the the kiwis here in their clueless fashion  think our sive like defence at Soweto is typical and they can rely on it being weak in the future. Nothing can be further from the truth. Boks are well know for very good defence and that will be fixed as will the errant goala kicking  -which together hav ecost us two victories agains tthe abs.

The pack will only get stronger with the return of Bissie, Burger and the attainment of experience and fitness of Coenie. There are superb young guys coming up like Kitshof, Elsdtat, Du Toit etc.  It all spells forward dominance of a significant degree. The abs do not have the players to live with this lot.

The backline will look very nice with Hougaard, Goosen, Frans/Jan Serfontein, Du Plessis/ Jordaan. Wings Habana, JP, Rhule Howard etc.  Only Habana might not make the next world cup.

Tons of talent waiting to be honed to be the best in the game.

Our immediate problem is that if certain players play in the Currie Cup they must not tour.  Forget about the Currie Cup - its only purpose is to unearth young players. All those who are going on tour must be put on conditioning etc. If not then we will have a moderate tour. The then abs will be shouting how much better they played etc. Both Oz and abs are getting this right and we are shooting ourselves in the foot again. Oh when will these idiots running our game wise up.

One thing they have done something about is the refs. I do like the fact, and I am sure SARU had something to do about it, is we are having Northern Hemisphere refs officiating. One has not in the Championship felt that really bad bias as happens when bent down under refs are blowing. That wil be of great help in the future - and many matches which previousy would have been close loses will now become comfortable wins.  Think of all the penaties we got both at Dunedin and at Soweto. True we didn't goal many of the kicks but that will change and we will reap huge rewards in furtue. What is significant is how much the cheating abs were blown up. Even mcaaw got blown for  once although he still got away with things. This could lead to the abs loosing a big advantage and being forced to clean up their act as I have been recommending.

I always thought it amazing how we were the only team in the competitionwho never knew the rules. Quite evidently we are very capable of playiing to the rules as both these matches showed.

The one stat that will change then is the 43 penalties to 1 yellow for the abs and the 6 penalties and 1 yellow for the Boks (Oz fared about as badly as us in this respect) Tough times ahead for the abs if this hug eswing in penaties away from them continues.  

In the end we may look back on BL and be thankful as it was his shocker that at last promted SARFU to act after many years of abuse. I can only hope the NH refs are here to stay. SARFU must not bow to any attempts to alter this. Pumas also be warned!

 

 


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 666
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 09, 2012, 19:34:29

 Boks well known for their defence Beeno? Please, you're an embarrassment!

Do I have to trot out all those scores in the last 10 years when the ABs have annihilated your so-called defence?

And as for your "grams " of talent; which club side in the UK is going to own the Boks when you send a 2nd string side there at the end of the year?


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 506
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 10, 2012, 03:03:39

Sharkbok, Seeing as the AB's have gone through EOYT in NH unbeaten for last 3 years makes your 1st point null and void, how have the Boks fared?  McCaw and Carter aren't irreplaceable, though special players but have flankers like Sam Cane coming through and like Goosen, Cruden is a work in progress, however who knows in 3 years whether Cruden or Cane aren't replaced. The new forwards coming through will be more than a match for any international team. Games today aren't necessarily won on forward domination or the majority of possession as the AB's showed against the Boks, imagine how much badly the score would've been if the AB's had 10% more possession, it's how you use what you have. Conclusion the majority of your points seem more like wishful than factual thinking.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3603
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 10, 2012, 03:30:05

polyboy- @ matches on slower fields are more often decided by forward domination. Not that the Northern Hemishpere allways has bad conditions. Look at NZ vs Argentiona in New Zealand, or NZ vs Sa at the caketin which was not perfect. . Rather it is a trend that slower pitches do result in more of a forward arm wrestle, and less space out wide. The All Blacks have especially struggled in Northern Hemishpere worldcups. France, England, SA, and now even Wales could put up a stong forward pack that could dominate. The All blacks are mostly about loose play and the counter attack on looose play where their is space out wide. The highveld of South Africa actually suits the AllBlacks as it is a hard fast ground that supports a fast tempo game, unlike much of the Northern hemishpere teams/fields. I am by no means writing the AllBlacks off, however I would say that on a slower pitch the boks forwards would have dominated the AllBlacks increasingly more so. Then add the French, English, Wales etc etc. and suddenly the All Black backs have less space and a different kettle of fish


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: The All Blacks will not retain the World Cup in England in 2015- This is why
October 10, 2012, 04:10:42

 As usual the All Blacks are 1 step ahead and their current game plan will suit the new rules being employed for the eoyt. You will find the new rules will suit the All Blacks far more. Big lumbering forwards will be even less of an influence. The South Africans are struggling to keep up now with the speed of the game as they usually only good for 60 minutes I wonder what will happen to them as the speed of the game go's up another gear. The All Blacks have already given us a glimpse of what's to come. 


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