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2600 Topic: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 1559		 Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 08, 2012, 16:07:22

 

Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings


Digby Ioane is congratulated after scoring a game changing try

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Article Published: Monday 8 October 2012





 

Australia's victory over Argentina combined with New Zealand's victory over South Africa has moved the Wallabies above the Springboks who have dropped to third place.

Australia beat Argentina's Pumas 19-25 largely thanks to the boot of Mike Harris as he kicked 20 points at the Estadio Gigante de Arroyito in Rosario on Saturday to also give the Wallabies second place, albeit a distant one behind champions New Zealand, in the inaugural Rugby Championship standings.

Only four tenths had separated South Africa and Australia going into the final round of matches, but the Springboks' 32-16 loss to New Zealand in Soweto had put their second spot on the line.

The difference between the two sides has now grown to 1.23 rating points, although both Australia and South Africa have seen their rating go down over The Rugby Championship.

New Zealand's four-try victory - their 16th Test consecutive win - at FNB Stadium increased their rating by just over nine tenths to now sit 7.43 points clear at the top of the IRB World Rankings.

The All Blacks have occupied top spot since 16 November 2009 and their clean sweep in The Rugby Championship has seen that cushion increase by 3.05 points.

Argentina remain eighth after their first taste of The Rugby Championship, but are now less than a point above Scotland, placing their position in the second band of seeds for the Rugby World Cup 2015 Pool Allocation Draw on 3 December at stake.

IRB World Rankings - 
08 October 2012 Position (last week) 
1(1) NEW ZEALAND 93.35 
2(3) AUSTRALIA 85.92 
3(2) SOUTH AFRICA 84.69 
4(4) ENGLAND 83.09 
5(5) FRANCE 83.03 
6(6) WALES 82.26 
7(7) IRELAND 79.85 
8(8) ARGENTINA 78.63 
9(9) SCOTLAND 77.97 
10(10) SAMOA 76.23 
11(11) ITALY 76.03

 

 
World Champs

Status: Squad member
Posts: 118		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 00:23:58

Well at least the Boks can claim one weks boasting this year for 2nd place against a very weak wallaby team
nukefreekiwi

Status: Squad member
Posts: 116		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 01:10:45

  The boks are extremely lucky to be third. It's only thanks to their regular schedule of tests against NZ that artificially inflates their world ranking. Afterall, when you consistently play teams ranked higher than yourself, even a loss doesn't have much impact on your overall ranking score but the occasional win over a higher placed team will disproportionately inflate your ranking score.  

Argentina illustrate this point perfectly. Before the start of the Championship they were ranked eighth with a score ( July 30 th) of 79.25.   5  losses  and a draw (to higher ranked teams) later and they are STILL ranked eighth and their overall score actually improved , going up several hundredths to 79.34. Both Ausfailure and SA benefit in a similar manner thanks to their regular encounters ( losses) with the worlds # 1 team.  I suspect if NZ s SANZAR partners were to play the ABs as infrequently as most NH teams that their positions on the IRB table would plummet dramatically. 
nukefreekiwi

Status: Squad member
Posts: 116		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 01:10:45

  The boks are extremely lucky to be third. It's only thanks to their regular schedule of tests against NZ that artificially inflates their world ranking. Afterall, when you consistently play teams ranked higher than yourself, even a loss doesn't have much impact on your overall ranking score but the occasional win over a higher placed team will disproportionately inflate your ranking score.  

Argentina illustrate this point perfectly. Before the start of the Championship they were ranked eighth with a score ( July 30 th) of 79.25.   5  losses  and a draw (to higher ranked teams) later and they are STILL ranked eighth and their overall score actually improved , going up several hundredths to 79.34. Both Ausfailure and SA benefit in a similar manner thanks to their regular encounters ( losses) with the worlds # 1 team.  I suspect if NZ s SANZAR partners were to play the ABs as infrequently as most NH teams that their positions on the IRB table would plummet dramatically. 
Arthur John

Status: Squad member
Posts: 350		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 01:14:01

rugby. The end of the year tour is going to be a real eye opener for SA .

Nukie...I have to agree.
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 1559		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 02:16:04

 @nukefreekiwi- that is crap. The only teams that beat the All Blacks enough to make a positive effect on their rankings are Australia and South Africa. Scotland could play the All Blacks a million times and not win so it will have no effect on increasing their rankings, but will decrease. Argentina is so low that losing against the All Blacks has no effect. However if Wales lose against the All Blacks it does effect them. This is why Wales ranking decreased after the world cup, even though they got to the semi final. They lose 4 games including the 3rd place play offs. Playing teams like England, Wales and Ireland at home is a points cow. Wales and Ireland have never beaten South Africa in South Africa, and England has not for many years. Ireland, Wales and England have not beaten the Allblacks in ages so each time they play the are gauranteed to lose points, even if it is less than OZ or SA. England are on allmost the same points as South Africa so they will lose just as much
nukefreekiwi

Status: Squad member
Posts: 116		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 03:52:24

 @nukefreekiwi- that is crap. The only teams that beat the All Blacks enough to make a positive effect on their rankings are Australia and South Africa

errm. You seem to be missing the point. The AB s are ranked so highly that losses have virtually NO negative impact on a teams ranking score. Ireland came for the June series ranked eight in the world. Two losses and a draw later and suddenly they are 7th. The 2 losses had no negative impact whatsoever on their score but their draw did. Somehow 2 losses ( including a record 60 something /nil thrashing) can be generously compensated for  with a draw against the # 1 team in the world. You see, touring NH teams have nothing to lose in terms of ranking points but everything to gain. 

 

South Afrca and Ausfailure benefit in a similar fashion. Losses against the ABs have practically nil effect on their ranking score whilst an occasional win is disproportionately rewarded with a points loss to the A Bs and a gain to the boks or Wobblies. South Africa lost by a considerable margin at home against a well travelled all black team yet still retained their 2nd place on the table. It was 
nukefreekiwi

Status: Squad member
Posts: 116		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 04:06:09

 It was only after Ausfailure beat the pumas that SA were demoted on the table. Similarly, Argentina lose 5 matches against higher ranked teams but somehow manage to gain a few points thanks to a solitary draw.  Based  on the above, if NZ were to engage in a regular competition  with a few NH teams and decrease the number of tedts against SA and Ausfailure, it would only take an occasional win or draw for them to race up the rankings.

 

 

 
World Champs

Status: Squad member
Posts: 118		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 04:20:25

Ausfaliure - lol Nuke thats a classic....BOOM!!!!
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 1559		 RE: Australia move above South Africa in IRB rankings
October 09, 2012, 04:34:28

 Its true that any team that beats the All blacks will increase their rank significantly. As no teams are beating the All Blacks is does not really matter. So it is purely academic. It does not matter who the All Blacks play or not play at the moment. 

England are 4th, so they increase the most points for a win against them, and reduce the most for the loss against them. South Africa has won the last 12 games or so apart from one loss(nearly all games in England). So they are a points cow for the boks. South Africa rarely place France anymore who are 5th(same story- most points to gaine and lose). 6th are Wales. It has been ages since the boks lost to Wales. The home games in SA are easy, although they are very competive in Wales. Our current backline could struggle against them on the EOYT. Ireland are weak in SA, but good overseas. Then its Argentina or Scotland. Scotland are competitive in Scotland if the field is so wet that the conditions are not conductive to playing rugby but rather rolling around in the mud. 

So realistically, playing other teams more especially at home is more oppertunity to get points. 


Although I would expect full strength Australian team and bok teams to be more competive against the Allbto change that next year or the year after. This will bring the points difference down and make a win against the All Blacks less beneficial. The All Blacks have the most experienced team, but when the ageing Carter and Mccaw are not on the field we shall see a less experienced team. 

England are also in a rebuilding phase, and I think that an England pack at full strength in England is more physical than the All Blacks. If  the All Blacks play on a slower field against a very strong England pack I think we could see the English increasing their points at the expense of the All Blacks. I would like to see Mccaw lying on the floor in the English rucks, with an England Pack at its best. The would ruck him good and properly
 
 

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