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2584 Topic: You can't send a boy to do a mans job

Status: Squad member
Posts: 532
You can't send a boy to do a mans job
October 07, 2012, 13:56:47

The all blacks once again showed why they are the world leaders. The boks threw everything at them only to be snuffed out. Most of the All Black tries were really soft and it due to the fact that lapses in consentration. 

I honestly believe that Meyer got this whole season wrong. I said before and I will say it again, test matches is not the place where you play or teach players the game. 

Meyer should have chosen the bulk of his players from the sharks and stormers and tried to use both the Stormers and Sharks playing pattern. The Stormers defence mixed with the Sharks attack. Players such as Taute, Hougaard, Goosen etc are all promising players but they are not ready to mix it up withthe big boys and it showed yesterday. 


Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 56
RE: You can't send a boy to do a mans job
October 07, 2012, 14:26:34

You may have a point Kingcorn!

But i agree with Naas ...if you good enough you old enough. You have to play to improve.

The boks looked good against the Aussies but we all know this Aussie side is not a good one .

HM was forced to change a game plan that worked for him but was not being implemented by in- form players. Steyn's downfall is of huge concern, possibly the result of being over played and badly managed.

We are hard on the Boks. We have seen in the Super Rugby any player can get rattled and make mistakes. The boks were beaten by a beter team on the day. The worlds no.1 team, world champoins and one huge step above all others. SA have some serious work to do to be the no.1 world team !!


Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12889
RE: You can't send a boy to do a mans job
October 07, 2012, 15:38:20

All people seems to go into a doom and gloom mood after yesterday.   I don't think the situation is as bad as it is given out to be.   Granted there was some very weak spots that need to eb attended to.   Even though the Springboks was leading in the first half and had both territorial and possession advantage - I realized early on that the game was lost.

In essence the real rot set in when Goosen was replaced by Jantjies late in the first half.   Jantjies is very, very poor and a horrible selection to boot.   He should never have been in the squad.

In essence I also do not buy into the forwards fitness story.   There was no indication that the possession issue slipped subtantially in the second half of the game.   What was evident throughout was that the All Blacks made better ise of the balls they got.

What became more evident in the last few minites of the first half was that there is glaring inefficiencies in the Springbok team with regard to defence and in ine particular case in relieving kicks that was not out.   Those deficiencies were eprtomized in the main by four Springbok backline players - namrly Taute, Jantjies, Kirchner and Hougaard.   Although Taute gets the blame - Jantjies was equally bad - he hung back and did not go forward to even attempt to make tackles,   Kichner's strong point is definitely not defence and so is Hougaard - especially in the Wallaby game - but also  yesterday.  Talking of Hougaard - I can clearly remember how yesterday and against the Wallabies he was tossed around like  a rag doll when he tried to make an attack.   In that he reminded ,me strongly  of another misfit De Jongh.  

There is a concerted attack on Goosen and some even wish for Morne Steyn to get back into the team.  That would really take us back completely.   Yesterday the Springboks have territorial and possession advantage - a thing that never happened in the Morne era.   He kicked away the balls and constantly handed over possession to the opposition.   Aside from the fact that he cannot link up in any form with the rest of the backline - his kicking game deserted him completely and he is no investment for the future.

I would despite all rg criticism still retain Goosen as the starting flyhalf - but send Jantjies packing.   As a backup we can still use Lambie.   Inasmuch as that is concerned - I would initially pick Lambie as full back and would put Willie le Roux on the bench to take up the full back position if Goosen or Lambie have to be replaced.

Insofat as the wings is concerned - I would have Habana and Pietersen on the wing,   The back up player should be Rhule - he is a relevation in the CC and is going to fo places in future.

The problem comes with the center combnation.   It is obvious that De Villiers should be replaced at soome time in the future and there is uncertainty as to whether Francois Steyn would meet requirements.   I do believe that it would be wrong to completely eliminate Taute at this early stage.   What Taute should do in fact is to go to the Stormers - where he will get proper defence coaching.    There are other candidates that could be looked at carefully - players such as Jordaan and even Howard.    I think that the 2013 Super series will separate the wheat from the chaff and will indicate who the players are to fo further in the center combination.      There is no way that players like De Jongh should even be a remote consideration though.   Be it as it may - the center combination is a key element  to development of a good backline in future 

I have dealt with the flyhalf issue already.   However, we have a major problem in the scrum half area.   We only have one international standard scrummie - depite all the negative comments about the performance of Pienaar  yesterday.    Hougard is not a realistic choice at all - he is not a natural scrummie and yesterday he would have been a disaster worse than Taute wasl.   I only hope that the 2013 series indicates which of the ftanchise scrummies could be taken forward for future selection as scrumhalves.

Amongst the forwards only minimal changes are necessary,  Bismarck du Plessis will be back next year and that would mean that we have a top class player in that position.   I would not move Oosthuizen to tighthead - and would seriously consider back up by Kitshoff and Malherbe.   Here again I would look what next years Siper 15 produces.

Amongst the locks I would definitely forget about  Flip van der Merwe and rather look at Elstadt,  but the Super 15 next year will indicate more on the issue as well.

In essence there is nothing wtong with two-thirds of the team - but some changes should be made, especially in the backline in the center and full back positions.   

I believe Meyer's attitude on the issue is 100% correct.   It is no use to expect miracles from a team that is being developed with players being completely new to the national rugby environment.   Meyer will make changes - some will be successful, others not.    Let him continue with development of players and the team as the best way forward.                



Status: Squad member
Posts: 532
RE: You can't send a boy to do a mans job
October 07, 2012, 16:34:12

 I rate goosen really highly as well as Lambie. I agree that some youngsters have the metal, but to 7 in you squad may be to soon. Meyer needs to develop competition in the squad. I would have played Lambie at 10 at the beginning of the season and started with pienaar . I would drop hougaard completely from the squad and deputised Vermaak . Far better scrummy than hougaard. 


Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11951
RE: You can't send a boy to do a mans job
October 07, 2012, 16:52:35

Mike a few pointers for you. Firstly I think Gooesen who will be under 21 next year is too young. Its more a physical problem than anything. He has no hardened up. bissie is the best hooker in the orld and Strauss will be great off the bench. Coenie is obvioulsy a better loosehead than beast but apparently its better for his knwck to play tightead. However at this stage he is anovice tighthead but the super 15 next year should sort that out.

Flip was excellent in dunedin and did well again agaisnt thr abs when he came on. I would play him ahead of Etzebeth who also is too young.

Next year if Schalk gets back play Louw, Vermulen and Burger. Burger does the work of two and does it for 80 minutes - he has unrivalled stamina.

Please Mike we did not lose because of Jantjes!!!!. I think we underetimate how much Frans was missed and also JP. Watch out when Frans comes back next year and is fit!

Hougaard is a problem. However so is Pienaar. He simply does not take  on the opposition on attack. We either go back to Hougaard and persevere or find another. Center well apart from the ageing jean and frans who do we have ready to step up. The guy I like thus far is Du Plesss but Rhule is also looking good.We shall have to see where how they go - Jordaan as well. Jan Serfontein - hopefully he gets game time etc

Fullback is another position up for grabs. No obvious candidates unless one moves Frans back there.

But above everyrhing else we need to get our defence structures sorted out and get in a  proper backline coach.

What has not been answered is how we controlled the ab backs in Dunedin but leaked soft tries here. Was Frans the main difference?  What say the pundits?

Dispite everything when one takes in the full 160 minutes there is a lot to enthuse about. These chest beating ab fans would not be so [removed] a hoop had we won in Dunedin as we certainly deserved to do.

Lambie at flyhalf would be okay by me. Wille le Roux is great on attack but can he handle the physicality at test level. Take him on tour and lets see. Meyer must use the tour to trial some players.  

Again, next year please lets have better player management re the Bok squad!!!!!!!!!!




Status: Bok regular
Posts: 780
RE: You can't send a boy to do a mans job
October 07, 2012, 16:57:51

 You didn't deserve to win unless you have more points on the board after 80, the boks deserved to come third in the RC behind a [removed]house spare parts Australian team...

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