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2572 Topic: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3431
Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 02:49:09

Not to take anything away from the All blacks as deserved winners. I found that Mccaw was again playing the ball on the ground today, often lying intentionally in the way to slow the rucks down. I actually think this type of conduct is unsporting to the game of rugby. He has perfected this and it really throws opposition teams off their game. The worst instance of the game, the referree actually thought that a bok player had knocked the ball on, but it was Mccaw lying over the tackle area that knocked the ball back whilst again playing the ball on the floor. He is not the only player in world rugby that does this, but he has turned it into an art form. Playing the ball from an offside position is one thing, but constantly lying on the ball, playing the ball on the floor like using his feet and hands to disrupt the ball I feel is is unsporting.

Hieneke Meyer was visibilty distraught in the worst instance of this when the Allblacks got awared a scrum as the referree thought that the boks knocked on. The boks had gone through a good passage of play amongst the forwards and looked like a scoring oppertunity. After this momement the game swung beyond any chance of saving. 

 


mozart

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Posts: 7840
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 03:07:48

Yep, the ABs were superb, but this niggling stuff detracts a bit. When Strauss was dinged for  losing the ball forward, on the ABs tryline, it was actually Richie on the deck, knocking it back. That was a very slender last hope situation for the Boks lost because of gamesmanship. Having said that though, we can't complain about the penalty count. And it had very little to do with the outcome of the game.


radtad1

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 273
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 04:21:48

I think the 9 penalties before the AB's were awared one kind of states that NZ were penalised for their inderscretions.  After 112 tests RM still has everyone talking about how he cheats sadly for us guys we just dont know how to deal with him.

 

As I have said many times before we keep going on and on about him but what have we done to counter the threat? Not much by the looks of things. I disagree guys he doesnt detract from the game, just ask your self if he can do it so can we? George Smith use to do it, so did Phil Waugh!  


Brycy

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1214
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 06:36:00

...not even a negative Sharkbok..the negative is the ABs exposing the falling standards of rugby from teams like SA and Oz.. The quality of rugby coming from the forementioned teams is on the decline i'm afraid....


clevermike

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Posts: 11942
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 10:44:23

The infringments by the All Blacks that resulted in penalties in the game was basically because of poor forward play.   The one case - where I am sure a disciplinary meeting woiuld result in a monthlong suspension was the spear tackle of Retallick.   If charged - and he shoulld be - he  is likely that he would be out for four weeks - it was disgusting to say the least.

There was a number of penalties acrually missed by the referee - the one was where the All Black prop went into the scrum - not binding at all - and pressing with his hand on the ground.   That is an automatic penalty - bot a scrum reform as was done in this case - the other one was the Mccaw incident mentioned.

The All Blacks during most of the game - when they ran riot in scoring tries - were extremely lucky.   They were playing against a total misfit as flyhalf and a disastrous defensive display by Taute and even Hougaard.  Under pressure De Villiers made two handling errors - but that was not the main problem in the backline.  Defence was the major factor. 


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5822
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 11:21:49

a 12-4 penalty count was a fair indication that the Boks didnt get the short end of the stick and given the number of times the Boks sealed of the ball to protect it was just as shocking, especially the 4 in their own 22 during the first half which should could have resulted to penalties for the All Blacks.

the ref had a shocker IMO and thats two games in a row now where hes been kak, but thats nothing new in 2012.
IMO while McCaw was lucky to get away with playing the ball on the ground, the Boks were even muckier considering habanas try came from a forward pass from JDV.
JDV passes the ball while standing in front of the All Blacks 22mtr line and habana catches the ball behind the All Blacks 22mtr line, a clear forward pass which gifted the Boks 7pts.
so were the Boks really hard done by??? IMO no, but rolliand really should ref up north, quality of refs in the world are shocking, especially as the top 4 refs are probably all saffas.
 


moolaa

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 625
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 11:52:45

 Have to agree Sasu. Rolland did everything he could to hand victory to the Boks! I don't think we got our first penalty awarded until about the 50-55 minutes! He totally ignored the Boks illegal lying on the ball in the first half and also the obvious forward pass to Habana from JDV ( the 2nd try he's scored from forward passes in a week!).

So I don't think the Saffas can complain too much about the penalty count and some of McSaints alleged infringements!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11942
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 12:22:30

moodaa and Sasu

I agree with you about the reffing standards and that the pass to Habana was in fact forward.   However, I had a major problem with the most obvious mistake made and that was the spear tackle by Retallick.   That is punishable by a yellow card at least - or more often than noy by a red card.  

I think the northern hemisphere referees are in the main not up to standard.   I know that they ref according to northern hemisphere play and the fact that the All Blacks got penalized so many times is due to their own infringments according to the laws as applied by northern refs as a whole.    


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5822
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 12:29:38

@clevermike,

was originally meant to comment on the speartackle, but my DNA means playing McCaws advocate always takes precedence, LMAO, :P

ur spot on about retallicks spear tackle, should have been a yellow card and a penalty, and its why i dont feel bad about daggs yellow card when the JDV made a run down the side and ran it, even though taute passed that one a meter or two forward as well and right in front of the touch judge,
it wouldnt be a bad thing for the All blacks to see retallick get sited as its the only way for the youngsters to learn (like ezebeths headbutt) and i wouldnt mind seeing some of NZs other locking talnets get a shot.
 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11942
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 13:26:20

Sasu

Am in full agreement.   I think that red cards should be applied in the following cases in any given fameL-

*   Hitting a player with a fist

*   Spear tackles

*   Head butting - if clear evidence through injury is detectable

*   Tackling of players while in the air or jumping in line outs

*   Eye gouging

All of the above has nothing to do with the game of rugby.   If playetr want to bo - they can change the code pf sport.

In the main the above is a major injury threat to players and could even result in fatalities.   Unless the referees start to applu the law about the above stricyly and without favour that type of thing will continue in rugby.

Indicentally that spear tackle was even worse than the McCaw case in Dunedin  - after which Meyer went to apologixe to both McCaw and Hansen about the indicent and immediately acted against Greyling.   Have not seen any apology after the spear tackle incident on the part of the All Blacks - not very good of them under the circumstances - is ir?  Left to themselves there would also be no action taken against Retallick.   Don't feel so smug about it.  LOL.      


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3431
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 17:40:17

 The reason the Allblacks never got awared penalties in the 1st half was because the boks forwards had the ball most of the time. The team in possesion will allways give away far less penalties than the team without possesion. The Allblacks forwards got warned by the referee countless times but eventually it was one of their backs that gave away a penalty from playing from an offside position, Israel Draag. 

 

Many of the rucks I saw Mccaw playing the ball on the floor with his body, feet, hands. I have never seen another rugby player do this before and give away so few penalties. Mccaw could have been sent to the bin a few times in the game. He is allways lying on the wrong side of the ruck. He pretends that he cant get out of the ruck, but he should not be their in the first place. When he is lying on the floor he even pretends to be trying to get out of the way, and then his loose leg  somehow over ball or trapped on the hands of someone trying to clear the ball. I think the IRB  should take exception and have a close look at him during games. Then when he ends up on the wrong side of a ruck just penalize him right away. In this years Superxv I  did notice he was getting penalized allot and it made the crusaders less effective.

I have also noticed the tendancy of the Mccaw to commit professional fowls that gives away penalties when the opposition picks up momentum. This as well should be an instant sin binning. 

Watching yesterdays game I have lost some respect for Mccaw. He should just focus on his game than trying to be nuisance to the opposition by constantly lying on the ground on the opposition side of the rucks and pretending that he accidently got trapped and is not trying to interfere with play.


Brycy

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1214
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 17:59:53

Sharkbok as yr coach has stated and I will quote him directly....

"They are the best in the world at exploiting and capitalising on turnover ball, and that is what they did with devastating effect in this game," the former Northern Bulls and Leicester Tigers coach said.

"The All Blacks really are a quality team and I take my hat off to them"


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3431
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 18:04:45

 Brycy, I am talking about one aspect of play- The rucks. Richie allways conning referees that he is "accidently" trapped on the wrong side. 

 

Check this article- 

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/opinion/7296554/Serial-cheats-Crusaders-prosper-by-conning-refs

 

Serial cheats Crusaders prosper by conning refs

 

MARK REASON
 
 
 
 
Last updated 05:00 18/07/2012
 
 
 
 
 
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AH, BUT YOU DON'T BIN SIR RICHIE: Crusaders skipper Richie McCaw being  spoken to by ref Steve Walsh.
IAIN McGREGOR/ Fairfax NZ

AH, BUT YOU DON'T BIN SIR RICHIE: Crusaders skipper Richie McCaw being spoken to by ref Steve Walsh.

 

Opinion

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OPINION: Twelve months ago thousands of neutral rugby fans were backing the Crusaders.

After the horrors of the two earthquakes, we hoped Christchurch could derive some shreds of momentary joy from the performance of their rugby team. No more. Some of us now hope that any team but the Crusaders wins the Super Rugby.

Richie McCaw's post-match eloquence and decency is in contrast to his coach's one-eyed remarks and hides a multitude of sins. Too many of the Crusaders intimidate referees, take cheap shots at the opposition and serially cheat around the ruck and maul.

It is a cultural malaise that is presumably encouraged by the coaching staff and sets a terrible example to young players around the country.

Let's deal with the intimidation of referees first, because this is a problem that is affecting all levels of rugby in the country. McCaw says far more than he should to referees and uses his status to influence games.

Too often the Crusaders are officiated by New Zealand refs who are clearly in awe of the man. Instead of telling McCaw to shut up, they hang on every word.

Bryce Lawrence, a ref who facilitated a Crusaders victory against the Reds earlier this season, is the worst offender.

Don't take my word for it. Before the match against the Hurricanes Sean Fitzpatrick said: "Richie has had the wood on him [Lawrence]”.

This is a former All Blacks captain saying that McCaw has control of a referee. Michael Lynagh then added: “He [Lawrence] appears lenient towards the Crusaders.”

After the game Fitzpatrick said: “I thought they [the Canes] didn't always get the rub of the green. I thought the referee was pretty harsh on them on a number of occasions, especially at the breakdown.”

Not according to Todd Blackadder. The Crusaders coach said after his team's defeat: “There were two tries that shouldn't have been awarded, for a start. These things they hurt you and they kill you.”

Even though in the opinion of many, including a former All Blacks captain, the ref favoured the Crusaders overall, Blackadder still gave him the bird.

The Crusaders work on referees as a group. Andy Ellis plays the nice cop, giving the refs a pat, trying to keep them onside. Kieran Read, like McCaw, uses his growing status to get at refs.

How often have we seen his look of wide-eyed amazement followed by a querying, some would say dissenting, shake of his head.

Against the Chiefs, Corey Flynn was warned by referee Steve Walsh for appealing too loudly. Ellis, of course, reacts to his team-mate's rebuke by patting Walsh sympathetically.

He would have done better to have told his forwards to desist because Luke Romano then appealed for a crooked lineout throw and pumped his fist at the opposition after getting the decision. Charming.

Yet unlike the Crusaders, the Chiefs' coaching staff didn't whinge after the defeat. They could have justly pointed out that Romano's try should have been disallowed because one of the Franks brothers was offside at the kick and, far from retreating, was actually trying to play the ball.

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They could have pointed out that Sam Whitelock was off his feet when he drove Ellis over the line, despite Lyndon Bray's very odd assertion to the contrary.

They could have asked why not one Crusaders player was binned as they serially cheated in the final, desperate two minutes. Ah, but you don't bin Sir Richie.

The Chiefs could conclude from all this that intimidation of referees is something that works. How on earth did Vinny Munro award those two TMO tries against the Force at the weekend?

Nathan Sharpe was complimentary about the Crusaders afterwards, while wryly observing: “They scored four tries in the first half. Not sure how they got a couple of them but they did.”

When the points are added up at the end of the season, young, inexperienced, quiet sides like the Canes and the Brumbies lose out. You could even call them disciplined sides, but the lesson is that discipline doesn't pay.

The Crusaders haven't had the best of seasons, but they have controlled enough refs to start the playoffs at home. They shouldn't even be there.

When junior players see the Crusaders prospering through verbal intimidation, is it any wonder that they imitate the country's top players. Last week a Wairarapa ref retired after 20 years because he was fed up with the abuse.

"Enough is enough,” he said. “The union has to ensure that those who act outside the spirit of the game are held to account."

They could start with the Crusaders. Apart from the intimidation of refs, Romano and the Franks brothers frequently hit late and dangerously. The Crusaders forwards are also the most cynical bunch at the tackle area.

When they have the ball, they hold and obstruct. When they are the tackler, they rarely roll away and if they do, it is towards the opposition halfback who they "accidentally" impede.

The home crowd don't appear to care, so long as their team wins. Far too many booed the referee at the weekend when he quite correctly disallowed two tries, one for a grotesquely forward pass, the other when Adam Whitelock was in danger of getting to the tryline ahead of the ball, he was so far offside.

Despite plenty of individual brilliance and decency, the Crusaders have become an unappealing bunch. Maybe something decent died when Brad Thorn left.

Whatever the cause, I hope the Crusaders lose and come back next season with a proper respect for referees.

- © Fairfax NZ News


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5822
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 18:04:52

@clevermike,

each to their own, but i disagree big time. greylings cheap forearm shot was intentional and deserved a red, retallicks was reckless and deserved a yellow. but reatllick for mind look to correct his error hence not following through with it, but still it was a penalty and a yellow.
i really believe that intent is the major difference between the two, but the fact that retallick wasnt even sited was a bit of a joke, just like greylings two weeks for balatant thuggery.

i also disagree on red cards for spear tackles, especially under the current defenition, cos if someone up ends another player in a tackle, but then holds onto him and lowers him down safely like i have seen numerous times the last two years, then they shouldnt get a red IMO.
and as for the headbutt, if u deliberately throw one, u should be red carded straight away, making contact is irrelevant cos the intent to hurt someone is there and that is malicious and uncalled for and why ezebeth was very lucky IMO not to get a red and be suspended for longer.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5822
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 18:11:29

@sharkbok,

u might not know who mark reason and his father are, but they are as anti All Blacks as u can get and on a radio talk show in NZ mark read admitted as much.

the rugby show in australia says that brussow and McCaw are the biggest cheats around, saffas say that pocock and McCaw are big cheats and in NZ they dont really care about anyone else, cos were still churning out the results.
IMO each to their own, but its only common to blame others for the inadequecies of their teams, especially when theres alot of love for that team.

i cant help but shurg of those comments, especially when no one mentions the bloody murder the ref let the Boks get away with on their breakdowns, sealing of the ball time and time again, but que sera sera.


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3431
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 20:29:14

 

 


 

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clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11942
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 22:16:38

Sasu

I agree in essence with you - but niot on trying to justify Retallick - he made a spear tackle end of story.   However, I also agree with you about Greyling - the bastard is too stupif to realize what he did - and for that he was disciplined by the team.   He hsould have been given a red card - end of story - but so should have been done in the Retallick case.

In any event - one thing is wrong.   Meyer went to apologize about the Greyling  incident to both McCaw and Hansen - but not a word from them about the Retallick incident and no acrion taken - is that not bad? 

  


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5822
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 22:56:36

@clevermike,

IMO meyer was right to apologise but i was surprised when he did, because greyling did it on purpose.
rettlaick on the other hand was not intentional and i truly believe that, so an apology isnt necessary IMO, because its all part and parcel of the game and accidents will happen.
i agree that retallick should ahve been more careful, but a yellow is a better call. im not convinced he intentionally went out there to spear tackle him, cos thats not smart rugby and smart rugby is what the modern day All Blacks is all about. for me if intent could be proven like greylings baffaling charge, then for sure a red card and a hefty ban, but i guess intent for me is the key.
i wouldnt be surprised if retallick said sorry during the customary handshake at the end of the game, or at least im hoping he did.


allblacknblue

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 233
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 07, 2012, 23:23:41

Abs and Mcaw infringe masterfully, you watch, from withen the opposition 20 all the way to the 50 and even wide of the post withen 50 to 40M but why?

I think because they back their defense if a penalty is awarded and kicked into the corner or leave them taking pot shots at goal from the halfway line. Also because they know if they get that turn over in broken play that there a good chance of a 5 or 7 pointer at the other end.

But that seems to change once they get a warning or the opposition are in the 20 they tighten up like a flys arse. anyone else agree?


Brycy

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1214
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 08, 2012, 00:51:30

 

South Africans are in awe of Richie McCaw

 

Richie McCaw is respected and revered in South Africa - and hated.

His cult-figure status is not confined to New Zealand.

Our greatest rugby foes loathe to admit it, but they, too, believe he is superhuman - a cut above most of their legends.

Esteemed figures such as Naas Botha, Danie Craven, Joost van der Westhuizen, Francois Pienaar, John Smit and Frik du Preez were superb Boks. None are of McCaw's stature.

It hurts to say this, but simply put, possibly the best rugby player that has lived,” said Gary Gold, Springboks forwards coach from 2008-11.

Gold's view is commonly held, but a strong level of animosity towards the inspirational All Blacks captain is also prevalent.

““He's like a good politician. The good ones stay in power.”

In this arena, Springboks coach Heyneke Meyer feels McCaw lives on the edge better than anyone.

“For the South African public he is a guy they sometimes hate, but it's because he's so professional with the referees he gets away with it,” Meyer explains. “In South Africa if they hate you, you are a cult figure. It shows the respect because they know he is such a great competitor at the breakdown.”

Down the line, when the 31-year-old retires, his place on the pedestal is assured worldwide. But, until then, he will continue to cause outcry.

“I've seen it with guys like Sean Fitzpatrick, once they finish playing the respect is even more and they accommodate those guys, but when they're playing there's a different feeling,” Meyer said.

McCaw's status is reflected in the way the Boks have targeted him - often illegally - over the years. There's not just been one enforcer; many have had a crack, tried to provoke him during a match, take him out altogether.

“Sometimes I don't know how he can walk but he just keeps on going,” Meyer said.

.

Dean Greyling was the latest to use thuggery - the prop's elbow to McCaw's head in Dunedin was a brutal, but not rare, act.

In many respects the impulse to lash out is a badge of honour for the All Blacks captain; recognition that his ability on the floor, work-rate and leadership frustrate the opposition to breaking point.

“I normally had my big friend Bakkies [Botha] so I got him to try to sort him out,” former Bulls captain and Boks centurion Victor Matfield recalls. “If you couldn't sort him out at the breakdown, the chances of winning the game were very tough.

“Although he plays close to the law he doesn't give a lot of penalties away. He's very clever at getting away with things.”

Matfield believes no-one is exempt from admiring McCaw now he has played over 100 tests and won a world cup.

“When he talks to the referees, they listen to him. He can get the referee to make certain calls because of what he's done in his career. He's very influential.”

Those examples illustrate the love-hate relationship South Africans have with McCaw.

While some Boks supporters enjoy seeing him targeted off the ball, a compelling level of respect also exists among those with measured, valued opinions.

Former Boks coach Nick Mallett believes McCaw is the best openside flanker in history, describing him as tireless, courageous and understated.

“It is his captaincy that sets him apart,” Mallett said. “Leading from the front and always setting the example. Modest, he is the perfect New Zealand captain.”

Meyer reckons McCaw's presence is worth 10 to 15 points to any side.

And Gold's remarkable statistics back up those assertions.

After some in-depth analysis, the now Bath director found McCaw often had more than 70 contributions per game - incredible considering the ball is in play for 40 minutes on average. That's almost two contributions per minute and 92 per cent of those were positive.

“If you look at the games South Africa has beaten the All Blacks, not many of those Richie has played. I've never seen him play a bad game,” Meyer said.

“Personally, the thing that impresses me most is the type of person he is. He's always humble in victory and gracious in defeat, although he hasn't lost a lot of test matches.”

In 2006, after the All Blacks played at Loftus Versfeld, Meyer took his son, Vic, to meet McCaw, who spent 10 minutes with the star-struck youngster.

It is an occasion he will never forget.

My kid is a big Richie McCaw fan,” Meyer said. “After the match he gave his boots to my son. That's the type of thing the public doesn't always see.”

Those boots are now a framed memento.

Some South Africans have an unfavourable perception of the great No 7. But the large majority agree with Kiwis that he is a great player, and person.


World Champs

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 118
RE: Richie Mccaw- playing the ball on the ground (The only negative)
October 08, 2012, 01:18:56

Wow awsome post Brycy what a man! what a legend! even our man mountain Colin Meads rates this guy as the greatest and I always thought Michael Jones was the best.

 

What I like about RM is he has always said what happens on the field stays on the field, true pro and learnt how to be humble from studying none other than they great Michael Jones....BOOM!!!! 


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