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2543 Topic: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5383
All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 06:53:45

All Blacks 1 v 1 Boks rundown

1 t woodc0ck v beast
beast hasnt impressed me much for the last few years TBH, he reminds me a lot of neemia tialata, can do everything adequately, but not at any level higher.
woody has been in great form for 2012, better then the last few years and his value come scrum time and relentless work at the breakdowns will be very handy for this battle.
adv woody

2 a hore v a strauss,
both had great seasons during the spXV, and in the recent matches hore has really stepped up to the plate and has been justly rewarded so with a start in the All blacks creme de la creme match of 2012.
strauss has been solid, but has struggled to transfer that form with the cheetahs to the Boks main stage, tends to be less efficent as the game goes on, which makes me question his fitness, but in the first 10-30mins is a real handful.
adv a hore

3 o franks vs j du plesiss
o franks is now a veteran of the All Blacks game despite being 24yrs old, tremendous prop ethics and does everything required of a tighthead and at the highest level.
jannie is a lot like beats and hasnt really impressed me too much the last 3 years. like beast he can do everything as well, but not at a level which IMO is good enough to be cmbative. jannie and beast both rely on the team to do well, in order for them to do well, if the Boks are going crap, then so will they, if the Boks are having a bad day, then so will they.
adv o franks

4 b retallick vs e ezebeth
a battle of the youngsters right here and both will be in the national teams lineup for many years to come.
retallick is an inch taller then ezebeth but thats not why i give retallick and advantage in the lineouts, retallick seems to have the same lineout nous that victor matfield had, but at the moment its in its grassroot stages.
ezebeth is more physical fo the two, a great ball carrier as well as a great defender which retallick is too, but while ezebeth might not be the smartest tool in the shed (headbutt on sharpie), hes not in the team for his brains.
adv ezebeth

5 s whitelock vs a bekker
s whitelock is a key component for the All blacks, even more so then both retallick and romano IMO, even if the other two ae more in form.
whitelock brings a level of compsoure that one can only get through experience at the top level of the game. very mobile which is the ABs trademark and is as apt at linking with the backline like a loosie as much as he is doing the usual tight 5 duties.
bekker when playing well is one of the best locks in the world, a real towerhouse who can use his size to his advantage and not just in the lineouts. at his peak he is probably the best lock in the world at the moment, but unlike s whitelock, consistency is sometimes an issue.
adv draw

6 l messam vs w alberts,
alberts has played 3 great games in 2012, the first 2 against the eng team and the last one against the wounded wallabies, for his other matches he has been next to non existent and like many in the Boks pack, his contribution becomes less notable as the time ticks down.
messam has had a stellar 2012 season and has firmly made the No6 his own for the ABs. a tremendous amount of pace which when combined with his size makes him a very formidable linebreaker and skills honed in the 7s circut makes him link up with the backs with a tremendous amount of ease. im expecting messam to continue with his great work in 2012.
adv l messam

7 McCaw vs louw,
McCaw has easily hands down been the All blacks best in 2012. he continues to throw the book on the age factor out the window much to the disbelief of many, especially in SA where being old is seen as a liability. im expecting McCaw to make the 2012 IRB player of the year award and IMHO he should win it.
but like many have said already including meyer, McCaw is the best rugby player to ever play the game. the fact that hes playing for his 100th test win is testemant to just how much of a legend he really is.
louw has been a revelation of sorts for the Boks who have struggled all year for consistency in the loose forward department. hes a big man who can smartly apply his trade in all areas and what makes him very special in the last two tests is that hes always where u need him to be.
adv McCaw.

8 k read vs d vermeulen,
both read and vermeulen have very similar attributes, powerful runners with the ball in hand and powerful defenders, but read has the advantage with speed and vermeulen has the advantage with power.
its quite uncanny just how similar these two are, right down to the value they have for their teams.
adv draw

9 a smith vs r pienaar
pienaars recent promotion of the bench has been very satifactory, especially as many considered hougaards performance at 9 very inadequate.
pienaar posses a good kicking and ball distribution game, he also has a decent running game, but hasnt showcased that in 2012 so far.
a smith has made the All blacks attack even deadlier, his bullet like passes is giving the All blacks backline more time then ever before to start their attack and is helping a lot with the rush defences which some teams are employing.
smith also has a decent kicking game and as the Boks found out the hard way a running game which can carve up the best of them. but despite his many qualities, aaron smiths passes are one of the key tools to the All blacks game, IMO smiths passes are unmatched by anyone anywhere.
adv a smith

10 d carter vs j goosen,
goosen has been a revelation for the Boks, but and empty beer bottle would have been a revelation aif it was sent to replace morne, lolz.
goosen is showing to have all the traits of a genuine superstar, he has the standard high class kicking game which is the norm for any saffa No10, but unlike most saffa flyhalves, he has an attacking orientated mindset which is very strong coming from a SA rugby culture.
goosens ability to straighten up the attack is giving the Boks backline more good ball then they are used too and will be a key component of the Boks game for many years to come. hopefully his body is capable of handling the pressure of top level rugby, unlike his cheethas brother brussow.
carter is carter, the best 10 ever to play the game, he has the most all round and complete game of anyone, very experienced with his defence, attack, all round kicking and playmaking abilities. its so easy to see why hes a former IRB player of the year.
adv carter

11 h gear vs f hougaard,
hougaard has for the moment found himself out of favour in his preferred position of halfback. but he has tremndous value which meyer rightfully sees and why he starts the match at wing.
gear has had a good season for the highlanders and the All blacks, but many might feel hes lucky to have been selected over savea.
both of them have x factor to boot and both will be looking for a strong game to help their teams.
adv draw

12 m nonu vs JDV,
with SBW and f steyn no longer in the picture for the rest of 2012, both nonu and JDV have reclaimed their preferd No12 jersey for their teams.
both have had very similar seasons, with nonu playing 2nd fiddle to SBW and not setting things a light when he did start and JDV not setting things a light in 2012 either, but last week had a change in both of their fortunes and they both delivered strong performances which is perfect for their battle coming up this week.
adv draw

13 c smith vs j taute
taute is a s green as u can get for someone not debuting. he had a decent run against the wlalbies, did the basics well and was satisfactory if not remarkable.
one of the AB verterans and IMO the worlds best 13 at the moment. an outstanding defender and a very intelligent player on attack which makes it so easy to understand why hes the most successful 13 ever for any 13 to have played 50 tests or more.
adv easily c smith

14 c jane vs b habana,
this will be one of the highlights for the up incoming match and both are in great form and as if the stars were aligned just for them, they are both coming of hattricks too.
both have been consistent performers for their teams, they have gas to burn and are just as sound at defending as they are in attacking.
i cant wait to see these two play.
adv draw

15 i dagg vs z krichner,
i cant really see the benefits of starting krichner over lambie, but krichners not exactly a lightweight and is ver apt at what he does.
dagg is a real excitement machine with the best goose step ever IMO. he has fond memories of soccer city, where he ripped up a tired Boks defence before scoring the try which sealed the game for the All Blacks.
both have a great kick return, but dagg has the advantage on attack, both are great players, but,,,,,,,
adv i dagg.

im cheering for the All Blacks hard, but IMHO this is what the man to man match ups are like, and why im confident of an All Blacks 13pt win.

GO ALL BLACKS!!!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10251
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 07:56:24

Sasu

I can only in a way laugh at your assessment of the individual players - because in reality it is not the case at all.   In that case all the All Black forwards - bar Etzebeth - are better than their Springbok counterparts and that based pm some theoretical assessment = yet when the two teams met in Dunedin - the All Blacks lost the forward battle - and badly so.   It is not even contested by the New Zealand commentators at all.  If - as happened twice in Dunedin - the Springboks forwards can push back with ease the All Blacks in maul situations by 20+ meters - does it not mean anything in your book.

That is where the  problem lies insofar as the Ann Blacks are concerned.   I will do a realistic assessment based on actual performances - not on anything else:[

    *   Dagg    6     -     Kirchner  -    4

    *   Gear    5     -     Hougaard -   5

    *   Smith   6    =     Taute        -  4

    *   Jane    5    -      Habana    -   5

   *    Carter  7   -       Goosen    -   3

   *   Smith   5    -       Pienaar    -   5

   *   Reid     4   -       Vermeulen -  6

   *   Messam  4   -    Alberts      -   6

   *   McCaw   5   -     Louw       -    5

   *   Whitelock  4   -   Bekker    -   6

   *   Retallick    3  -    Etzebeth   -  7

   *   Franks      5   -   Du Plessis  -  5

  *   Hore          4   -   Strauss       -  6

  *   Woodcock  5  -   Beast        -    5.

You will note that I differ from you on key players.   In that main I differ about Gear as against Hougaard.   If Pietersen was available there would have been no contest.   Pietersen would have a 7 against Gear's 3.   However, with Hougaard it is 50-50    

Conrad Smith is an interesting point.   Two more tests by Tuate would mean a 50-50 rating - four more a rating in favour of Taute.   One of the All Black players that should be replaced sooner rather than later. 

Smith looks wonderful on attack - but he has a serious problem in defence.   Ask Habana about that one in Dunedin.   His kicking game is also questionable.   A bit more experience will help him, but at this stage it is 50-50 compared to Pienaar.

Reid is all hype - looks good when he is in the backline passing the ball.   He had a horror in Dunedin giving away 3 penalties all on his own.   Not for the hard grind this one - loves to stabnd around in the backline to catch the eye.    Vermeulen a first time Springbok outplayed him comprehensively in Dunedin and is bound to do it again.

Messam was nowhere in sight in Dunedin - was he in fact in the team?

McCaw got rave reviews by the New Zealanders after the Dunedin game - but that was expected.   Even the latest comment on the Re-Union program expressed reservations about speed issues.   In Dunedin he was not better than Louw and that was evdent in the over-all display by the forwards.   Matter of fact Louw had an edge on him - sentimentality won't help here.

Whitelock is definitely not better than Bekker - very average at best

The props are 50-50, but your rating of Hore being better than Strauss must be a joke - you cannot possibly be serious.    

All in all the sotiation is as follows:-

Backline :      All Blacks      -    34

                       Springboks    -    26

Forwards:     All Blacks       -    34

                      Springboks    -     46

The forward superiroirty is confimred by what happened in Dunedin.   I wrote elsewhere that if the All Black loosies can improve their performances ( get difference of 12 points down to 6)  then the All Blacks would win - otherwise the game would be very much in the balance.

 

  


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5383
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 08:42:15

@clevermike,

that is honestly how i see the players had to head, and its not based on just one test, ites based on their 2012 performance. Boks may have started to play well recently, but the All Blacks have been playing well all year and it seems that the All Blacks worst is still better then the Boks best if the dunedin test was anything to by, lolz. im not expecting another shabby performance from the All blacks and if they do gain parity in this match, then it was over for the Boks before it even started, but each to their own.
i know u dont rate whitelock or read, but the same goes with vermeulen in NZ (not by me though cos oi rate him), but the majority of NZers see vermeulen as a non entity and a stereotype Bok, all brawn and no brain.

but as for McCaw, i posted a while back how from waht i saw and what the stats say was McCaw having another super game which will go along way to his 2012 IRB player of the year nomination.

runs with ball in hand
McCaw - 7
d vermeulen - 9
w alberts - 5
f louw - 8

meters made
McCaw - 47mtrs
d vermeulen - 7mtrs
w alberts - 10mtrs
f louw - 11mtrs

linebreaks
McCaw - 1
d vermeulen - 0
w alberts - 0
f louw - 0

tacklebreaks
McCaw - 1
d vermeulen - 0
w alberts - 0
f louw - 0

handling errors
McCaw - 2
d vermeulen - 0
w alberts - 1
f louw - 1

tackles made/missed
McCaw - 10/1
d vermeulen - 5/0
w alberts - 6/2
f louw - 6/0

lineouts won
McCaw - 1
d vermeulen - 2
w alberts - 0
f louw - 0

penalties conceded
McCaw - 0
d vermeulen - 0
w alberts - 0
f louw - 3

these are espn stats and when looking on foxsports stats, it paints an even more falttering picture for McCaw, but these numbers reflect what i saw in the dunedin test and that was McCaw outwork the Boks looseforwards on attack and defence.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10251
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 09:29:33

Sasu

Stats are wonderful things - but I rarely use them to prove anything.   For instance meters gained with ball in hand - but what is the end result?   If it for instance lead tp a handover of the ball - then the meters gained is really meaningless.  

However, the question remains - why was the All Black forwards under pressure in Dunedin?   And this time aroiund they will not have a helpful Freyling to fall back on.   LOL

I in general look at overall performances - not individual performances and my rating of McCaw is probably more a needling exercise than anything else.   The problem here is not past stats (There are too many new players in the team to use past stats as a norm) .  In the case of Dunedin and now - there were some players from the Springbok forwards not in the team iself - Bekker, Eizebeth and Oosthuizen in particular - yet the All Blacks could not beat the forward pack as a whole.   I admit that McCaw tried his level best - but he could not on his own off-set the balance in favour of the All Blacks.   He is going to try that again tomorrow no doubt.     

Reid is an enigma.    In the Argentina test he looked very good in passing the ball - yet  he made no effort whatsoever to stop the first Argentinian try.   Let me put it frankly - he is a good player on the loose - otherwise I have my doubts. 

Easy to say you don't rate a player after only one test.   I know that I said in the past that Vermeulen was a good no 8 - based on performances in Super 15 - and as far as I can recollect you agreed with me.   He had a good first test but with further international expereience he can only get better.    Reid on the other hand has played enough tests to get a clearer picture of his performances and so has Whitelock.   Overall both was average - not above average or good.   Both in fact has the same deficiency - they think they are good centers and that hard forward play is not required.    The jury is out on Retallick - despite all my comments to the contrary - I like what I saw of him and he is in th long run bound to be a better lock forward than Whitelock..    

I still maintain that the All Blacks would have to up their forward game considerably to win - otherwise the game is going to be 50-50 - with the home side having the benefit.    They better find a quick solution as to how to neutralize Goosen - giving him too much room is going to be problematic for the All Blacks cause.  Other than his heel problem that prevented him from kicking at goal - he had a very good first test and he can only get better.      Unlike Steyn - whom they could ignore insofar as defensive play is concerned - they cannot afford to do that in the case of Goosen.

 


Bok -Bef$K

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 216
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 09:44:51

FYI  - It will be Jane vs Hougaard , and Gear vs Habana as a right wing's direct opposite is the left wing.

Kirchner vs Dagg - Adv Dagg

Habana vs Gear - Easily Habana

Taute vs Smith - Adv Smith (Experience) but Taute can outshine him

JDV vs Nonu - Draw

Hougaard vs Jane - Draw

Goosen vs Carter - Adv Carter (experience)

Pienaar vs Smith - Draw

Vermeulen vs Read - Draw

Alberts vs Messam - Draw

Louw vs Mccaw - Draw

Bekker vs Whitelock - Adv Bekker

Etzebeth vs Retallick - Easily Etzebeth

Jannie vs Franks - Adv Franks

Strauss vs Hore - Draw

Beast vs Woodcock - Draw

 

SA 7 NZ 8

Close! This will be the ultimate challenge for the Boks, but no doubt they will be up for it. Go Bokke!!!!!

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8873
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 12:02:47

A few ammendments Bokbe:

Taute/smith - draw. conrad is vastly overated and did zip against us last time round.

Vermuelen - advantage. Please he had wee read for breakfast. Read disappeared in the match.

Louw advantage - he outplayed macaaaw. Louw is looking better each match.

Straus advantage

Hougaard versus carol jane. Draw but Hougaard is a better player than he has shown thus far.

No Mike as you correctly say if saSUE's ratings are accurate how come the ab pack got a whipping in Dunedin? Trouble is the ab fans believe their own hype.

saSUE is going on about fitness. I acccept that Vermulen is still getting there as he played precious little rugby before these tests. But he is still pretty fit and will be even better this Saturday. Alberts is the only one who cant go 80 minutes. Please remember we will have 4 forwards on the bench. Coenie - a massive plus, Liebenberg who could start for us - a very good hooker, Flip who had a massive game when starting in Dunedin and Coetzee who is well suited to a fast paced match.

Unless the abs can seriously up the ante in the forwards they look likely to go down. It is quite possible also that the Bok forwards will be better not worse. If the forward gap remains the vaunted ab backline will be exposed as we attack them. Against the Pumas there were exploitable gaps.

No ab fans lets be realsitic here -ona rational basis  the Boks look set to win this. It could mark the beginning of a long period at the top.

My main concern for Saturday is goal kicking.

We shall see.

 

 


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 17:04:06

CleverMike. You forgot Nonu/JDV any particular reason? 

 

Dagg vs. Kirshner ~ Adv. Dagg

Jane vs. Hougaard ~ Adv. Jane (overall form in 2012)

C.Smith vs. Taute ~ Adv. Smith (experience)

Nonu vs. JDV ~  (Defence ~ draw, Attack ~ Nonu, Passing ~ Nonu) Adv. Nonu

Gear vs. Habana ~ Adv. Habana

Carter vs. Goosen ~ Adv. Carter

A. Smith vs. Pienaar  ~ Adv. Smith 

Read vs. Vermeulen ~ Draw

McCaw vs. Louw ~ McCaw (Sorry my fellow SA bloggers but we should just agree to disagree on this one)

Messam vs. Alberts ~ Draw

Whitelock vs. Bekker ~ Adv. Bekker

Retallick vs. Etzebeth ~ Adv. Etzebeth

O. Franks vs. Jannie ~ Adv. Franks

Hore vs. Strauss ~ Adv Hore

Woodcock vs. Beast ~ Adv Woodcock 

All Blacks +7

Home Advantage for Springboks +6

 

Result ~ All Blacks +1

 

   

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10251
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 18:29:35

wfunstom

I have watched  many rugby games involving the All Blacks and New Zeaaland Rugby teams and there are some things I still fail to understand about the rating you give to some players.   Incidentally I agree with you about most of your ratings - but am amazed about some other ratings.   Let me say that as far as the backline in general is concerned - I agree with all the ratings with slight reservations about two of them.

The two I wonder about is in fact the Smiths - both Conrad and Aaron.   Let me explain more about the reservations.   Conrad Smith this year is a pale shadow of what he was barely 2 years ago.   He always was and still is a clever player with ball skills.   However, in games this year he was not really the gamebreaker he used to be.   In the 5 Champion tests prior to the Argentinian test, the All Blacks scored only 7 tries.   Conrad Smith was part of the reason why the backline became less effective - bearing in mind that SBW was in two of the five tests as well.   His roll in those tries were non-exitent or minimal.   In the past if he did not score tries himself he would have a major roll in scoring thereof,   In this particular case he is opposed by a complete rookie and the fact that he is given the higher rating is normal - but he may easily fail in performance against the rookie.

I am an Aaron Smith admirer - there is no better attacking scrimmue in the world.   He is speedy, reads a game well and identify  arracking opportunities excellently.   However, on the negative side he does not look good under pressure - in some cases his passing was inaccurate and he does not really have a passable kicking game.   Bearing in mind the above, I would say it is a draw in this case.

Amongst the forwards I have a few problems as well.   In New Zealand a fast running and passing game is the norm - whilst in SA enforcement by the forwards is the norm.   Although the All Backs win the majority of games against the Springboks - at times they lose games because of deficiencies anongs their forwards.   It was no different in Dunedin - where the Springboks could have won if they used the opportunities they came their way.   There the problems were the forwards - and I can really not see that the same would not happen in Soweto.

That brings me to the ratings.   Reid is highly regarded in New Zealand - becaise he is very good in loose play and in running and passing.   However when it comes to tighter aspects he really is not good enough - he was the main problem amongst the forwards in Dunedin for instance.  He gave away 3 penalties there - not because he attempted turn overs - but because he tried to stop mails illegally or ended up lieing on the wroing side of the mauls thus preventing the ball from coming out.   I would say he is very good where the All Blacks have forward dominance - but he definitely adds nothing to achievement of such dominance.   In a game like expected tomorrow I would say he is not worhty of  a drawn rating.

The only rating I am amzed about is Hore - he is a hard player - but not a good one.   I think Strauss is a far cleverer and more mobile player that outside of the scrum situation brings much more to the game than does Hore.

The Props I believe are draws in both respects -   I really think that there is nothing really different that warrant a higher ating for the four players concerned.

In essence the real problems for the All Blacks is up front.   If they can achieve parity there - they will win the game.    If not (and that is very likely) the result could be in favour of the Springboks.   The problem is going to be the quality of balls the All Blacks would get for their backline to function properly.   The line out situation in particular is going to be very problematic for them.   

You have every right to say that in their iniitial five tests - the Springboks scored less tries than the All Blacks = but you never had a handicap called Morne Steyn in the All Black team.

 

         


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 20:35:17

Ok I should really elaborate a bit further.

 

While Conrad has quite often broken games apart for the all blacks I've never really thought of him as a "game breaker". My justification for giving him the advantage is mostly due to his defensive organisation (second to none imho and the reason he has cemented the AB #13 jumper as his own). Also his ability to read the game (experience. He is an intelligent rugby player to the point where he can be a threat without the ball). Key attributes as a #13. Nothing much to rave about in Dunedin but you can always rely on his workrate. Taute on the other hand has played 1 game... Yes he put in a solid performance but was he a revelation to the point where he has the upper hand against his test veteran opponent? The man shows promise but you cannot give points based on what he might become. For me this was a no-brainer.

 

Now as for A.S vs. R.P,  Smith was put under pressure in the first Pumas test and showed his inexperience. In saying this, he made a big impact in Dunedin behind a struggling pack. I gave Smith the edge due to his running and passing. I do agree he needs to hone his kicking game but RP put in some SHOCKING kicks in Dunedin. He did play well against OZ last week but in general I feel like South Africa have depth problems in regard to the #9 position. 

 

As for Hore vs. Strauss... *correction* Adv Strauss. (Hore is not the player he used to be). Strauss totally outplayed him even though the Springbok lineout was dodgy by their standards. NZ have BIG problems in regard to depth at #2. I rate Strauss and Bismark as possibly the top 2 2's at the moment. Based only on recent outings Franks and Jannie I'll call a draw. Woodcock remains an advantage over Beast (when was the last good game by him?). You have to remember that the AB's won the battle of scrum penalties in Dunedin.

 

so now we come to Read vs. Vermeulen. I was very tempted to call Adv. Read. But based ONLY on recent outings and Read's tendency to give away penalties come maul time, I had to call this a draw.  In NZ he is regarded as the best #8 in the world. Workrate, physicality (especially in the tackle), ball carrying, breakdown work, kick restarts, vision, leadership (next AB captain), mobility, flair, offloads, linking play he has it all... 

 

Overall verdict......... AB's by 4

 

 

 

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10251
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 21:58:11

wfinston

I did not really dispute your ratings of the Smiths - I just said  that there are some aspects of their game that I wonder about.   Nobody in his right mind could ever rate Taute higher than Conrad Smith - mabye in a years time depending on his development - the rating could be reconsidered.

I also mentioned that there are facets of Reid's game that is really nice to see.   In some respects he and Spies play similar types of games - but Spies is definitely not up to the standard of play displays by Reif.   However Spies is not regarded as worthy of Springbok selection at all.   As I mentioned we have a different emphasis on forward play than what people in New Zealand regard as good forward - more or less confined to looser type of play.   For us ball-carrying by force is important and so is defence.   Our flanks are in a different category - they should be speedier and able to play wider as well.     In this regard I would refer to the last Habana try last Saturday and the role played by Louw in that try as an example of what we refard as food loosie play.   Because of deficiencies in the tight phases of the game - I said that Reid in fact in SA woiuld be regarded as an average 8.

The only case I really differed from you was about Hore.

I really think the All Blacks if they want to win - will have to neutralize Goosen and attack in the channell as options to use.   I have mentioned elsewhere that the All Blacks had a specific defensive pattern when Morne Steyn was flyhalf.   Steyn was a very one-dimensional player and that ultimately caused his downfall.    He stood way back in the pocket and would normally kick or make a delayed pass to the inside center - no variations at all.   They therefore had their wings falling back to cover the kicks (and launch counter-attacks from there) and the loosies and All Black 12 would cover Franvois Steyn and tackle him before him reacing the gain line.   Morne Steyn could be ignored because he presented no attacking threat at all.    Even though Goosen is very young and inexperienced in the event of the All Blacks trying the same method against him - he is going to punish them severely by variation of play..     

The other issue is - Conrad Smith was at one stage in the Dunedin game brushed aside by Francois Steyn and the latter broke through his defence.   Taute is a very strong runner but  unlike Francois Steyn - he is speedy as well.  I can remember Super Series game last year whenhe was playing full back for the Lions - I believe it was against the Highlanders - where he ran from the Lions 22 virtually through the whole team to score under the posts.   If Conrad Smith misses one tackle - the same thing will inevitably happen again.

Despote my ravings elsewhere I think the game is even and the team that uses their opportunities to best advantage will win. .   


radtad1

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 273
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 05, 2012, 23:36:52

Dagg 7 - Kirch  5 - Though Dagg has been fairly quite he has still maintained a solid game at the back unlike Kirch who has had one reasonable game and even then there were various mistakes he made against the Wallabies

Gear 4 - Habana 9 - Dont no why the hell they put Gear on he's slow and Habana will have him for breakfast - great move Hansen!

Jane 8 - Houggard 5 - You can reverse my comments above Jane is nearly on par with the brilliance of Habana

Conrad 6 - Taute 4 - Experience is the reason that young Taute will struggle with Conrads running lines

Nonu 7 - JDV 5 - Nonu is showing some scary form unlike our captain whom has shown inconsistent form and his missed tackle rate is inexcusable for one with so much experience Nonu will run straight at him and Goosen all day

Carter 8- Goosen 6 - Carter appears to be back to his enigmatic best which wont bode well if he unleashes Nonu and Cory Jane. Goosen may run front foot but look at him playing deeper in the pocket like he did for the first 15 odd minutes against the Wallabies. Goosen doesnt get any higher than a six as he simply hasnt had any where near enough game time to be deemed the saviour that we are all hoping he is? 

Smith 7 Piennar 5 - Smith has the fastest pass in the game and this only adds more time for Carter to breach the Bok line. Piennar for all his time in this position is still struggling to cement his own gameplan and style - fustrating actually for one so experienced 

Reid 6 - Vermuelen 5 - Vermuelen is solid but thats about it hasnt made any advances that would give him a strangle hold on the 8 man position. Agree that Reid does play to the law but afterall his mentor is RM so we shouldnt expect anything lless. However Reid also does things that no other 8 man in the game can do so thats why he has the rub over Duanne

MaCaw 8 - Louw 7 - Louw was amazingly effective last week now all he needs to do is maintain this game in and game out and he will face a massive acid test this game and if he comes through well then he will be staying there for a very very long time. MaCaw is simply mr consistent even though many on here have 'jaundice eyeballs' give the man his dues he has adapted his game his leadership is exemplary and it is an edge that gives the AB's the advantages that JDV doesnt.

Messam 5 - Alberts 6 - Messam is very strong on defence and often you dont see him much but if you look at the rucks and mauls he is there always and not many get past his shoulders. Alberts ability is the reason he has the trick on Messam as this gives him more ammo to inflict pain

Retallick 5 - Etzebeth 8 - 2012 is the year of Eben he is a find and amzaing talent his challenge for one so young is to maintain his discipline as the rest of his game is solid. Retallick is not that far away from being a good lock also but at this point in time he will need a big game to match our man

Whitelock 6 - Bekker 5 - My reasoning for this rating is simply that Bekker blows hot and cold and one game dont make you a game breaker in my book. The AB set piece and particuarly their lineout has been very good. Lets hope Bekker can go thee distance. Whitelock has been there and abouts and I like his robust approach and definately has better handling skills and ability to offload that Bekker doesnt have

Franks 6 - Jannie 5 - Jannie hes a hot head lol but can go from being a star to a sub-par and I do worry that most of his games agains the AB's have been average to mediocre most times. Franks seems to be a powerhouse but he also goes missing now and then

Hore 3 - Strauss 7- If you watched the last game against the Argies Hore was slow and missed tackles on both tries scored he is definately passed it - Strauss has been a revelation and his time in the seat at least gives SA a very good backup hooker once Bissie comes home

Woodcock 5 - Beast 5 - Not much to write home about these two guys both do there jobs solidly

 

Scores:

NZ = 91 points

SA = 88 points

pretty fair assessment I think going to be a close game in my books - AB's have the advantage in the key areas of Fullback, Flyhalf, Halfback 8 man and the effervescent MaCaw as captain. SA have the adv in wing, Lock, hooker, backrows are pretty even

 

AB's by 7 and under

 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2918
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 06, 2012, 01:50:01

 radtad1@ Very good analysis. Lets just hope that the boks are in better form than the individual counterparts. Go Boks!


Papamoa

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 263
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 06, 2012, 09:15:07

 Sasuke, great read man enjoyed it a lot. Not much of a technical person myself but appreciate it when someone can break it down . Individual stats are very important as they contribute to the more important team stats. Keep up good work bro.


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: All Blacks vs Springboks 1 v 1,,,
October 06, 2012, 10:08:00

Very good assessment Radtad1 very similar to what I would of said, except I would of gone a bit higher for Gear and Hore and Woodcock. 95 - 88.

 

I feel the bench is going to be a big advantage for the All Blacks and could possibly be the difference.


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