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2509 Topic: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5823
championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 01, 2012, 20:49:25
Steve Hansen - Getty Images
//Getty Images

Championship won, but AllBlacks instantly reset their goals

James Mortimer - (2/10/2012) - comments 2 Comments

The All Blacks, courtesy of coach Steve Hansen, have to move on from their celebrations of winning The Investec Rugby Championship, with the unbeaten New Zealand mentor saying the team had to reset their goals.

 
Hansen didn't mince words when asked about the All Blacks newest trophy, which he made a point to move from the conference table to the floor, as if to emphasise the team's focus on new targets.
 
"That's dead and gone," Hansen said as he shifted the ultimate symbol of Southern Hemisphere international rugby supremacy to the floor.
 
"Keep it grounded," the All Blacks coach added, saying that it was important the team didn't reflect too much on their latest success.
 
It is a mantra that is often heard in this All Blacks camp, saying that this season the priority was to 'move on' from winning the Rugby World Cup.
 

The All Blacks will now look at setting a new record for the Tri-Nations/The Investec Rugby Championship, looking at becoming the fifth All Blacks side to go through the tournament unbeaten (and sixth team overall outside the 1998 Springboks), while becoming the second side to go through a six-match edition without tasting defeat.

The All Blacks have also conceded just 50 points, so if they can keep the Springboks to less than three points, they will break the all-time record, while they are on track to roughly (unless the Springboks run rampant) to break the six-match defensive record by roughly 40 points.

But any talk of such achievements in the first major competition the World Champions have competed in since beating France 8-7 at Eden Park last year have taken a firm backseat to the All Blacks just playing well in their next match.

"The focus is on having another good performance," Hansen said.

"It's nice we've won a trophy but it's more about performance. Trophies and clean sweeps and records are all a by-product of a team preparing well and playing well."

But despite this, Hansen could not deny that he had a formidable side at his disposal.

"If we prepare genuinely and honestly, we've got enough talent to beat anyone so we will be hard to beat," he said.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5823
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 01, 2012, 20:51:43

that is the very attitude which will see the All Blacks continue with their consistent winning performance.
while i am are under no illusion that its only a matter of time before the All Blacks notch up their first loss under hansen (will gladly eat my words if hansen proves me wrong), theres something very professional about the way hansen is rolling and im glad to see him prove so many of his negative critics at the beginning of his AB tenure wrong.

moving on and putting aside the achievements that the All Blacks have accomplished is both intelligent and IMO inspirational, let us not ever celebrate our success and rest on our laurels, that is for an All blacks team mediocrity at its best. instead move forward always looking to better ourselves.
the All Black fans on the other hand, well its our duty to celebrate the well earned achievements of McCaw led All Black spartans,
thanks All Blacks, keep up the good work and good luck for sat epic game, :o)

GO ALL BLACKS!!!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11995
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 01, 2012, 21:17:02

Sasu

They can reset their goals as much as they like - but they are still going to lose on Saturday.   Keep the heinekens ready.  :)


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 504
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 02, 2012, 00:26:07

Clevermike, you make it almost sound as if the Boks are going to win on Saturday. Did you borrow Dorothy of Oz's magic red shoes and click them together chanting "please let the Boks win at least once against the AB's". Ah now I get it the Boks have reset their goals. they want to make sure they secure 2nd place.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11995
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 02, 2012, 05:55:56

polyboy

Let me be clear.   I consulted the local sangoma - you uncivilzed people call them witchdoctors - and she told me the green colour is dominant and the black one a sign of deep mourning.    She also said that the old black bones will feel the pain - they are way too old to be reliable.  

Joking aside - if there is one thing I do it is to analyze things and try to get to a logical conslusion.   People may not think or agree with my analysis - but I have been more times correct than wrong.    In the case of the coming test my analysis is largely based on the Dinedin test and the consequential impact of changes and adjistments made afterwatds - I also look at the alternative playing models that could be used to counter the strengths of the opposition and enhance your own endeavours.

In the Dunedin test statistics and the actual performance by the All Blacks was a rather average performance by their forwardsand the fact that up to the Greyling debacle the Springboks were in fact dominating the forward play.   The other perceived weakness of Cruden as flyhalf    There strengths were still moving the play wide leading to the Dagg try, the brilliance of their players under high balls  and the clever play of plaayes like Aaron Smoth.

The weakness of the Springbok team was amongst the forwards primarily the Greyling debacle and   the tather average performance of Kruger.    Amongst the backs it was poor backline play, poor kicking - whether at goal or strategically.

In arriving at a conclusion that I have reached I looked at what has been done to eliminate the perceived deficiencies.  

Forwards

The All Blacks   made no personnel changes to their side or at least that is the indications at present.   The Springboks increased their capacity by bringing in Bekker and Etzebeth - both better locks and line out players than the two that played in Dunedin.   The also removed the key disaster called Greyling.

The question is - can the All Blacks up their forward game to dominate the Springboks?   The answer is that it would be extremely unlikely that that would happen.   The All Blacks could try a game plan by playing a wider game - like they did in Argentina - in other words to run the opposition to the ground - but that is only possible of you can achieve some degree of domination up front and the opposition makes constant mistakes in ball-handling.   It is not clear whether such a plan would work - it depends  very much on opposition mistakes and allowing for as degree pf freedom of especially the loosies to run wild.   

The calculated conclusion reached is that there is no way that the All Blacks will dominate in the tighter phases pf forward play and that the Springboks will in fact be the dominaring team in that phase of the game.   That in fact will force the All Blacks to play a very tight game and limit the capacity of the loosies to perform wider out.   

The Springboks to dominate by 7 out of 10.

The Backline

As per normal at Dunedin the All B;ack backline was the determining factor in the final outcome of the game.   They were strengthened very much when Smith came on as scrummie - Dagg and the wings were brilliant under the high balls and in counter-attacks,   The weaker players in the backline were in fact Conrad Smith and especially Cruden.   The All Blacks have been strengthened considerably, by the fact that Carter is again available to play.   As a matter of fact Carter is the key to All Black backline performances.

In the case of the Springboks there was a very important change in personnel with the inclusion of Goosen  and Taute in the mix.   It is also likely that the team will be strengthened by the inclusion of Lambie at full back.   What will the effect be in the game on Saturday?   Not sure at all about that one.   The only guideline in that regard is the Aussie game - where a completely different style of play by the Springbok backline emerged.   Matter of fact is that the All Blacks themselves would be unsure about what to do insofar as countering of the different style of play is concerned.

What is evident is that both sides will try and isolate the opposition flyhalf.   Whether that would be successful is a mood point and that in itself  could open up other attacking options.   The All Blacks will try and attack through the channell more particularly - but there is a question mark over whether that  would be successful.

The All Blacks is likely to continue domination of backline play - the question mark is by how much.   In Dunedin it was a case of 8 out of 10 domination by the All Blacks and in fact decisive in their win there.   Taking into account the Australian game - I believe that figure is likely to be 6,5 out of 10.   It will obviously be effected by four issues, namely -

*   the Carter effect; 

*   the quality of balls the All Blacks get from forward play;

*   the obvious inexperience of Goosen and Taute - coupled to potential mistakes by them and other backline players; and

*   the effectiveness of defensive strategies.

Symmary

From  a South African persoective the real danger to themn can be summarized in one word  "Carter"   He is the key to the success of the All Blacks - the Springboks in reality has nothing to fear from the All Black forwards (Mccaw and Reid included) - but Carter can be the matchwinner in this case.

On the All Blacks side the question mark is largely centered on what is going to happen with backline play by the Springboks.   It is unlikely that they would give the All Blacks too many high kicked balls to exploit and the SA backline would obviously try and limit handling errors that could be exploited by the All Blacks.

As indicated there are many uncertainties in the above evaluation - but I would say the indicators in fact all show up a Springbok victory.    It will be a tight affair and will be substantially be affected by the Springboks ability to get over their goalkicking vows.

However, I give the Springboks a winning chance of 10+ points.

 

      

  

  


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2308
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 02, 2012, 07:13:49

Mike, depending on just one player is for the dark ages! Carter and McCaws are very minor cogs in the whole setup! The RWC was won with one of them absent and the other playing injured!

But I see you have been setting up young Goshen really well and nicely to fall - what will happen when he doesn't deliver? He will be turned on off course by own fellow countrymen. Sad really! Meyers was worried about throwing him to the wolves too early - I don't think he was refering to the All Blacks!


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11995
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 02, 2012, 08:22:24

Hakwa

Sorry if I give the wrong impessionas to the Carter issue in what is akready a problematic and long item.   Let me explain in more detail.  I sincerely believe that Carter in fact has a huge impact on the game of the All Blacks - especially insofar as backline play and linkages with the forwards are concerned.   He has to be - especially since he is the best flyhalf in the modern era of the game - he really is a great player.    He to my mind is a major cog in the wheel insofar as overall play patterns is concerned.   If he is allowed leeway to dictate the game - the opposition is doomed.   The same cannot be said of either Cruden.   Whenever Carter and SBW is missing from the All Black backline they do struggle,   

I do not think that McCaw is that major factor in All Black play he was two years ago.   He remains a good captain and leader - but he was to a large extend contained in the Dunedin game and despite the New Xealand accolades he was quiet and limited in what he could and did do.   

The All Blacks still win in the games these two are missing - but it is a harder grind for them and they do struggle a bit under the circumstances,

I think you misread what I said about Goosen,   I referred especially to inexperience in his case - but simultaneously indicated that he is likely to play a better game than Morne Steyn did.   I also said that the All Blacks will try and contain him.   If he fails - he would not be worse than the highly predictable player Morne Steyn was.   I think the All Blacks will concentrate a huge part of the efforts in the game to neutralize Goosen and prevent the more expansive play by the Springbok backline.   I am not overrating the player himself - I am merely stating that he may present problems to the All Blacks.   What I am absolutely sure about is that the All Blacks will have to adjust there deffensive strategy substantially to cater for Goosen.   In the past that strategy was easy.   Forget about Morne Steyn - line up the inside center to cater for the rare cases where he passed to him  - and the wings fall back to cover the 90%certainty of the  expected kick by Steyn.   This time they will not have that leeway - they will have to go for Goosen himself and he is a shrewd youngster and not one-dimensional. - that may leave other gaps as a result.  

However, we shall see on Saturday what happens.   If the All Blacks do win - they will have to play their best game of the past five years - and I think that would be unlikely to happen.

 

 

            


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2308
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 02, 2012, 12:25:20

 Mike, that is called magical thinking, no offense intended! Look it up!


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 504
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 02, 2012, 13:12:10

Clevermike, for some reason the SA posters use the Dunedin match as a benchmark to judge how well the AB vs Bok forward battle went. Every team even the AB's have an off day the Boks certainly have, should we judge the Bok forwards by the way they were dealt to by the Puma's in the 2nd test, yet the AB's had no such problem with them IN Argentina. All teams are only as good as their last game. The difference at the moment between the AB's and other teams is that they can win at or away from home. The last match at Pretoria went the way of the AB's. If there is one advantage the Boks have its that they have everything to play fo, r the AB's don't but this won't stop them trying to clean sweep the series.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11087
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 02, 2012, 14:55:20

Good solid analysis Mike. I am afraid the ab fans are simply denying Dunedin ever happened or if they face up to the fact of bok supremacy they then explain it all away by saying that the abs had an off day. Bwahahahahahahaha

Look the facts are simply this - if the Boks play as well again and dont miss their goal kicks  they should win this by 10 +  The abs are ripe fo rthe taking.

Now should the Boks win its a dead rubber as far as ab fans are concerned. nevermind all about going for the record of most consecutive test wins or playing for pride etc etc.

Beeno - has the ab fans all worked out. Reading them like a bad comic book!! Hahhahahahahaha


polyboy

Status: Squad member
Posts: 504
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 03, 2012, 00:57:31

Beeno1 my boy your posts are entertaining and you are quite adept at squeezing round blocks into square holes when it comes to your views. The Dunedin game fits an AB pattern this year, Ireland gave them a scare in the 2nd test, AB's demolished them in the 3rd test, Australia offered some resistance then bang were nilled in the next game, Argentina gave the AB's a torrid time in their 1st encounter, well we saw what happened to the Puma's in the next test, Boks competed well in the 1st encounter and well have to see how Saturday goes, if there has been one consistent team in the RC it has been the AB's. You keep using Dunedin as your benchmark though and your "could haves, if onlys and should haves" to imagine superiority. cue the laughter.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11995
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 03, 2012, 04:02:20

polyboy

Your comments is really interesting.I have made a similar comment on this issue elsewhere and am going to repeat it here.   Ye olde bones - Ye olde bones.   It takes at least 14 days for the creaking bones to recover.   That means a problem for them this Saturday.   LOL


World Champs

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 118
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 03, 2012, 04:21:51

New Poster here from NZ- hi to everyone spent the last day reading through many posts before I decided to join. Im an ardent kiwi supporter but love the way that everyone gives each other shit on here.

 

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11995
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 03, 2012, 05:21:23

World Champs

Welcome to the site - new blood is always welcome and I hope you will be an asset.   Like on any such site - there are the logical people trying to keep things in perspective by being fair and reasonable - taking a more comprehensive view on issues of general advance of world rugby on the whole,   But you also get the non-thinking and small-minded lot.   The second group from time to time (but not nearly enough times) gets out of the hole in their brain cavity and try to be logical and reasonable.

Then obviously there are also the needlers - that says something on an effort to get a response and then laugh at the outcome.   I hope you are going to be great entertainment for us thinking members and needlers.

 


radtad1

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 273
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 03, 2012, 06:18:44

WC,

 

Welcome - yes new blood and new views are great and Mike has said it to a tee. But with a name like yours and a pic like that you may get the needle from a certain poster on here - so in his immortal words I hope you have a "back bone"

 

Cheers Rad 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11995
RE: championship won, but All Blacks instantly reset their goals,,,
October 03, 2012, 06:55:21

hakwa

Not being a linguist or psychologist - I had to look up the meaning of the phrase "magical thinking" .   Really can put a new meaning into the fact that you and a lot of All Black supporters do not use logical evaluation as a norm in dealing with rugby matters - but have a fanatical (almost religious) believe in the All Black prowess and believe (always illogivally)  that the All Blacks live in heaven and is not subject to ordinary human defects and frailties.

Basically the term as I understand it now relates to dil;utionary deficiencies and that is very evident in some rugby supporters - both in SA and in New Zealand.

The magical thinking of the All Black supporters that the team is unbeatable will be dealt with on Saturday and I guess after quaffing down all the available beer in New Zealand to drown out their sorrows  - the lot of you will be at the Psychologists to get advice how to get rid of the nightmare resulting from the ingrained maficcal thinking syndrome,

Not meaning to be offensive LOL.      


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