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2499 Topic: Dead rubber Tests
hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2186
Dead rubber Tests
October 01, 2012, 13:09:01

 We the ABs management are still deciding whether to send our 3rd String Team to SA and Australia to play the last 2 remaining dead rubber games.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 01, 2012, 13:15:48

Hakwa how many times are you intending to play oz in the rugby championship?

I sense a real chickening out happening.


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2186
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 01, 2012, 13:34:52

 Beeno you are asking the wrong Team! You should be asking the Wallabies how many times do they want to play the ABs. We have been humble and gracious to John O'Neill and Deans and agreed to play them more times than any other Teams to help them learn how to beat us and they still muck up. We have even given them a kiwi coach, kiwi forwards, a kiwi number 10 and other backline players - heck we have even had the kiwi coach who is a former All Blacks learn and sing the Australian National Anthem. How humble can you get.

As for you Beeno, although we are very tired and this is a dead rubber game, we are very humble and we will oblige you since you are our number one fan in SA (you and Dean Greyling) and send our Team just to come and entertain you (unlike your Jake White who in the 2007 Tri-Nations prior to the RWC sent a Token 3rd string Team to NZ, a feat which was repeated by PDV last year who said they were recovering from injuries) but we are not ones to hold grudges.


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5484
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 01, 2012, 13:45:16

@hakwa,

no no no brother hakwa, this game is far from a dead rubber.

yes weve won the IRC as was to be expected and apart from the JRC our rugby trophy cabinet has every possible trophy out their to win, but now the All Blacks are onto other less prestigious but still pretty sick things, like the 18 win streak record currently held by lithuania and my personal favourite, a win against the Boks this sat brings the All Blacks 6 saffa games closer to complete and utter world wide rugby domination, as the All Blacks will have a superior record over everyone everywhere.

when that day comes, king richie will forsake his title as king and take up the new mantle of emporer of rugby.
the worlds hope are now all in the All Blacks greatest rivals corner, the mighty Springboks and this weeken will be the battle of battles, the one match of the year ive been looking forward to more then any other, even more then the overrated RWC final.

 

GO ALL BLACKS!!!


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2186
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 01, 2012, 14:00:52

 Sasu, we could use this Test to blood some new players as per Clevermike!


sasuke uchiha

Status: Rugby Legend
Posts: 5484
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 01, 2012, 20:34:05

absolutely not brother hakwa, crush kill destroy, the All Blacks legacy must go on and we need to feild the best against our true rugby rivals, especially with the undefeated season at stake.

IMO we have been bleeding our players nicely with 2012 debutants , b retallick, l romano, c faumuina, a smith, b barret, j savea, s cane.
while other players have started to get more and more gametime after succesful spXV seasons which have resulted in even more experience to those players, lik v vito, l messam, b smith, t ellison.

we have 5 more tests after the Boks, so theres plenty of time to blood new players, especially on the EOYT, but i would rather expand the test caps that the above mentioned players have and maybe bring in one or two more players, like kerr barlow, tj perenara, brad shields, and hika elliot and dane coles, our hooker situation must be addressed, ASAP, o_O

 

GO THE ALL BLACKS!!!
 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1650
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 00:35:20

Hakwa trying to ease some cheap excuses in now incase we see a repeat performance of Dunedin except this time we blow the AB's off the park.

Dont worry Hakwa, the AB's start the betting at $1.50 favourites to SA $2.40. SA are paying $11 for a 13+ point win...Chuck a lazy hundy on that...

 

You only fooling yourself, NZL will play their best possible team this weekend. No such thing as dead rubber test matches between top tier nations. Pride is at stake.

Just imagine SA put 50 against the AB's. Should have been mighty close to that in Dunedin. Would you kiwi supporters still think you have the mettle over the Boks then?

I see a lot of chest beating about Nonu's first good performance in 2 years over the weekend. Pity it came against an uninspired Argies team who just weren't up for much on the day. They showed very little intensity and urgency and when a team relies on urgency and passion due to limited skill sets and then they forget to bring that urgency, they really cant front up can they.


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2186
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 02:18:09

easy now Boklogic, I mean, do we really want to Meyers to destroy that walkie talkie he constantly has in his hands :D :-)) - why don't we send our development Team to come to SA? You and Beeno would like to think it is important but I personally don't think this Test Match is that important since we already have the Rugby Championship in the bag! :-))


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2186
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 02:24:04

and one other thing  - you must stop singing that "Ole ole ole" everytime we do the haka! It shows great disrespect and it always comes back to bite you in your behinds! If you keep singing ole ole, we might as well do the haka in the changing sheds before the game as we did against the Welsh (and guess who complained the most - yep - Welsh fans who especially came to see proud Maori Culture on display up close and personal)


redsman

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 750
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 03:05:38

hawka or whatever you stupid name is.

Kiwis are gonna get flogged by Boks in SA - that is fact.

RE you comments about Deans - the real rugby community of australia dont want the failure as our national coach.  And re bledisloe, I actually recall your cheat McCaw making the comment that it was 2nd only to the RWC in terms of importance to kiwis.

Whilst ABs are going well for the moment the tide will turn and when it does get ready to suck it big time.

Frankly most aussies dont really care too much about rugby at all because of the very competitive market place of football codes in Australia. The demise of rugby in australia is going to hurt you all -you insecure kiwis.


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2186
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 03:37:08

redsman, bwahahahahahahhahhahahahahaha! In your face!


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 08:41:58

Redsman, I do agree that the demise of rugby in Australia will hurt everyone. World rugby needs a strong Wallabies squad! I do not agree that deans is the problem when you look at the very long list of injured players including but not limited to 3 captains!!! The Wallabies currently have 15 players out! Horwill, Pocock, Genia, JOC just to name a few. What's the go with AAC?? Is he also injured? And B. Barnes? Ioane? 7 world class players and that is probably only half the list! (I'm not even acknowledging QC as part of the team). The last time the All Blacks lost was at the hands of a full-strength Wallabies outfit. Do you remember that? The game that won Australia the 2011 Tri-Nations. They executed an amazing (Deans) game plan. I don't have any personal ties to Deans but I do think he is a great coach trying to operate under devastating circumstances.           


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1650
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 08:48:38

 Of course it's not important to you Hakwa...That's why you will only ever be a bandwagon supporter. I suppose when ab's get knocked off their perch rugby will lose its importance altogether to you.

 

Maybe you should join the population of Indians and coloureds in SA that "support" the ab's but never wonder far from their bok colours should things go awry for the ab's. when times are good hey..that's about to change hakster


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 08:52:33

Funnystone you are 100% right. The media twits and some bandwagoners are calling for his head but Deans is a good coach. Nobody on earth could have had good results with tha tlevel of injury. Its not an excuse its a fact.  We had the same rants  here when Rassie had 17 squad members injured and only managed a 10th spot in the super 14. Crazy really.

However a valid question is does a nZ coach suitaan OZ side. The two play different types of rugby. Another is after all this time has the coach taught the squad what he knows?

 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 08:57:16

Funnystone you are 100% correct. No coach on earth could have succeded with all those injuries. We had a host of bleaters going full tilt at Rassie when the Stormers only managed a 10th Spot on the Super 14 log. That he had 17 players out injured was only an excuse they said. Crazy really.

A valid question may be aske about how good i sit for Oz t ohav ea nz coach - they play different rugby. also has Deans after all this time passed onto the squad all he knows?

 


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 10:40:52

The Wallabies may have a lot of injuries now but does anyone think they have improved after 5 years under Deans?

They have lost to Scotland (twice) and Samoa at home, this would be unacceptable to the All Blacks or Spring Boks. Throw in losses to England, Wales and Ireland, a record 10 straight losses to the All Blacks, a record 8 - 53 loss to  South Africa.  Also a high percentage of losses to the All Blacks during his reign the Wallabies have been ahead at halftime only for the All Black coaches to change tactics at halftime and finish on top.  The Wallaby tactics in the semi final at the world cup 2011 against the All Blacks were woefull and they were well out thought and out passioned against Ireland in pool play. How was Gitaeu not in that squad!  In 5 years they haven't settled on a first 5 their mid field changes every week, their scrum is still vunerable (cost them Scottish test at home recently) Genia has to play every minute till he falls over.  Many of their wins are unconvincing eg wales recently.

They don't seem to have a game plan.  It wouldn't be so bad if they were going down playing well but they look poor winning or losing.  It's not that they don't have the players with Pocock, Genia, O'Conner Beale, Ioane who would make any team.  They perhaps lack depth compared to All Blacks and South Africa but he's had five years to build some.  There have been several ex All Blacks who have bagged him in books, he seems to lack man management skills.  I'm trying to think of some positives perhaps someone can point some out.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 11:32:37

Welcome to the Board Abnz. your felllow countrymen are struggling to see the light so I trust you may render the needed aid!  Enjoy.

Deans had a young side that should have come on stream this year but injuries blew them out of the water. However the problem is also they are not playing Oz rugby really. Where is all that backline skill and phase play? 


hakwa

Status: Senior player
Posts: 2186
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 11:47:59

well Beeno according to Quade, he is still waiting to be unleashed - sort of like waiting for a green light to appear flashing from Dean's eyes or from Dean's forehead to give him the all ok - so far, all that Quade has been unleashing is his tongue and his twitter fingers - he is by far the leading Wallaby twit and soon to be twat (past tense) :-))


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 16:09:27

Beeno, There are differences in the way every country likes to play the game.Traditionally, OZ play an expansive running game oozing with backline flair an SA keep it tight maintaining forward dominance. To put it simply, OZ have great backs, SA have great forwards and NZ have BOTH! haha    

In all seriousness, I think the OZ and NZ both like to play expansive running rugby so I don't necessarily think it is unfitting to have a kiwi coaching the wallabies. Yes they would have to adapt to different defensive structures and and game plans but this comes with changing coach no matter where they come from. Gatland hasn't done too baldy for Wales...  


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 02, 2012, 16:26:09

Hi All Black NZ, Yes I do think they improved. His winning record is better than Connolly's (especially if you take the All Blacks out of the picture). 78% over the last 2 years. He took them into the #2 spot. Yes it has just dropped to #3 but look at the injury toll. Australia won the 2011 tri-nations for the first time since 2001... He took the wallabies to the RWC semis (they were knocked out by England in the quarters in 2007), he has beaten SA 5 times out of the last 6. The last time the all blacks were beaten was against the wallabies.... He has rebuilt this team but they have been ravaged by injury. The worst I have seen for a long time.  


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 03, 2012, 04:22:33

Hi wfunston, Connolly's winning percentage was 64% Deans is 58%. Also Connolly only lost to 4 different teams, all teir 1.  You could take 1 team out of any coaches stats and it would improve dramatically.  Take South Africa out of Sir Graham Henry's reign and he jumps to 91%  The only Aussie coach he has a better winning % than since rugby turned professional is Eddie Jones and if they lose to Argentina this weekend he will fall behind him as well.  You are right they did win the Tri Nations but South Africa and the All Blacks both fielded second string teams at times during the tournament as they were concentrating on the World Cup.  Yes they did make the semis at the world cup but they had a good draw which should of seen them with an easier draw to the Final while the All Blacks and South africa were looking at a semi final against each other but they lost a must win game to Ireland in pool play which pitted them against South Africa in quarters and all Blacks in Semi. You must admit they never looked like beating Ireland in that game.  Alot of their losses are against the All Blacks but that was going to be one of his targets to win back the bledisloe and 10 in a row is a first in the history between the 2 countries and we know how poor they used to be. Naturally the Wallabies are going to be a top 3 team as the gap to the next lot is huge.  He had 4 years to build up his world cup team that was his first main goal and they were tactically poor at this tournament. I haven't seen any improvement in any parts of their game.  The injuries have only affected this years Rugby Championship.


radtad1

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 273
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 03, 2012, 04:30:07

Am I wrong to state that Deans hasnt quite had the x factor players that were around during the Mcqueen/Jones era?

 

I am unsure whether or not the wallabies have ever adapted to a kiwi running the ship as well afterall we know the fervour between Boks and Kiwis but I understand it is hatred between the Wallabies and kiwis?

 


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 03, 2012, 04:42:21

 

Genia, Beale, Pocock, O'Conner, Ioane I would class as x factor players That's more than the All blacks have. 


wfunston

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 89
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 03, 2012, 05:22:11

Connolly coached the wallabies from 2006-2007 only. Wallabies overall record is 52% (was actually shocked to discover that). We could sling stats around till the cows come home but at the end of the day there's no denying the Wallabies have been decimated due to injury.

 

For the record I support the All Blacks and could not care less if Deans lost his job today. he has had to work through a series of unfortunate events but I think Australia's biggest problems are at grass roots level and the the blatant lack of depth, neither of which Dean's can hold the blame. Radtad1 is right in regard to his crop of players. As for his management credentials, look to the crusaders. It is very much a grey area when we as fans try to critique a coach. I'm looking at that last 2011 tri nations performance against a full strength All Blacks. THAT was Deans 101. Something has to change for them. the ARU needs a clean out       


All Black NZ

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 105
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 03, 2012, 08:12:06

I only mentioned Connolly because you brought him up.  Their overall record maybe 52% but from 1997 till 2007 it was a respectable 66%.  We spend plenty of time being crictical of players and referees so why not the coaches.

There is a big difference between Super rugby and test matches.  The Crusaders culture was well established when Deans took over and I seem to remember the NZRU had to step in one year to prevent a player revolt.

The game you refer to against the All Blacks we were not at full strength with Kaino not playing and Guilford on the wing and if you remember half the team travelled from South Africa the other half had stayed home so it wasn't ideal preperation.  Also down 20 - 3 at halftime the coaches were able to change tact and the All Blacks came out in the 2nd half keeping the ball with pick and gos and fought back to 20 all.  It took a brillant break by Genia to set up beale for the match winning try.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8968
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 03, 2012, 09:14:32

Whatever your views hands off my mate Hakwa a rugby man and a true gentleman!

Hakwa I would hate the hahahahahahahahaka to disappear as it has to be the funniest bit of melodrama ever witnessed again and again. It shows the nz oaks in their best and most accurate light - those rolling eyes, tongues hanging out and that demented look - so apt - priceless stuff!!

Long live the hahahahahaka!!!

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10316
RE: Dead rubber Tests
October 03, 2012, 10:22:29

All Black NZ

Welcome from me as well.   Let me make a contribution on this one as well.   I believe that international teams teams go through cycles - for instance over a period they build up teams rhat really perform top class and then they go down and performs less well - until the next re-building phase take the up again.   There are many examples of that not only in rugby - but in other codes of sport as well.

Maybe it is not so noticeable in the case of New Zealand because of their large pool of good players.   Leave SA out of the discussion, because they have a large pool, but a religious tendency to shoor themselves in the foor consistently. 

However, it is a major problem in Australia and even in England.   In Australia Rugby League and Aussie Rules Football are really competing for sport participants.   In Englamnd it is soccer that really is rhe top team sport - not rugby.    That in essence mean that the pool is not as large as it should be.   In fact Rugby Union is a minority sport in the main confined to New South Wales and Queensland and the Super 15 approach is really to extend the pool to Victoria and Western Australia.

Be is as it may, Australia must draw the team from a fairly small pool of players.   If the real top players are affected by injury - the problem beccomes much more acute.   There is no doubt that injuries amongst top players are playing havoc with the present team.   However, that is not the only problem - some of their top players also misbehave off the field - sometimes like spoiled brats - and that is often reported on in the media.

I have been to Australia a number of times to waych rugby games there and I don't want to generalize.   There seems to be moral problems as well.   I was someshat shocked to see in public toilets buckets with notices indicating "Out Your Used Needles In Here".    The other issue seems to be performance enhancing drug usage.   At has been proven that the Sydney Olympics was the biggest drug fest ever.    In that tupe of environment lack of discipline and ethics ultinately affect professional sport and that could affect the competitiveness of spors teams from the affected countries.

I think the problems outlined above - more than the issue of coaching - may be the overriding problems.   International coaches are really in the main no fools - they know their sport code well - and has nmostlt proven their expertise before they are appointed.   Australia had good coaches in the past - this was proven by the fact that prior to the 2007 WC - got Eddie Jones to help with coaching.   

Deans was an exceptional coach of the Crusaders before he was appointed - but I do not think he ever had to deal with issues such as the limited talent pool and also rhe additional issues mentioned herein when he was Crusader coach.   I still think that Deans is and remains a good coach - but he has the serious problems as  outlined to contend with.

There are extreme limitations on what a coach can achieve under such circumstances - he can impart hais rugby expertise to the players concerned - and he can help getting the players more disciplined and professional - but others have to deal with the other issues raised.

In summary to get rid of Deans will solve no problems - it may even aggravate it.   In essence it is in the interest of international rugby to help Ausytalia to get over the problems as outlined - rugby cannot afford to let fugby siffer in a major country like Australia.

  

 


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