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The boks have been quite poor at ruck time and are not able to turnover possesion effectively, could introducing a player like Heinrich Brussow benefit the team?Brussow has shown on countless occasions that he is a world class fetcher who is right up there with Mccaw and pocock!

Firstly a warm welcome to the board and happy rucking!

Dan Brussouw has been poor for a coule of seasons now and Louw solved the problem last Saturday where our forwards gained a nice whip hand against the abs.

Meyer says he will keep an eye on Brussouw and see how he goes - Brussouw has had injury problems but to me he has faded and is not the turbo charged number 6 we saw against the Lions.

dan dan

Welcome to the Board.  You may find here some really good posters and often enough they differ on isues - so in this case I am saying I respctfully do not agree with you.

Initially Brussow was like fresh breeze in the Springbok team and I believe he was supported by most thinking people.   However, there were some law changes that made fetching very difficult unless it happens virtually immediately after a tackle was made.   Unless the fetcher is very speedy can get timeously to the breakdown point the result is normally a penalty against the fetcher.   

The laws was changed to the effect that fetching is very difficult in cases where any player arrived at the breakdown point too late.   This change has resulted in an increse in the number of penalties awarded when turnovers are attempted.All fetchers are blown up more often than before.   However, it also resulted in less turnovers be affected.

Now lets get to Brussow in particular.   Initially Brussow was very good - but over the last year and specifically during the recent Super 15 there were problems with him when he attempted turnovers.    In the main this is the result of turning up too late at mauls to affect legal turnovers.   In the last three Super 15 games ithis year Brussow himself in fact gave away 5 convertable penalties - meaning he cost his team 15 points in the three games concerned.    You need a very substantial number of turnovers to off set that and those are not readily available anymore.

I also watched him playing in the subsequent CC games and he cannot be described anymore as above average,   The problem in the main relates that he lost speed and thus efectiveness.   This was probably the result of his injury.   

I am afraid that Brussow is not in the frame for future selection - despite what Meyer said about him.   I in particularly sorry to see what happened in this case - but accept that the game has moved on and that in the process the fetcher role diminished.      

Yes Dan they are - Louw is no true fetcher and its part of Meyers downfall is his snubbing of Brussouw - he might wake up eventually to this fact, he seems to learn slowly - Morne has gone, he just needs to wake up to the fact that Kirchner, Jean, Pienaar and Alberts need to go as well.......Brussouw needs to be brought on board and Hougaard moved back to 9

Agree with Mike here. The laws today do not allow for the hardcore fetching Brussow displayed in 2009. Now the team in possession of the ball is given the advantage in attack (which is the way it should be).

Have a look at how the laws affected turnovers in the 2009-2010 period:

 http://s13.postimage.org/f1aqynflz/BDTO.jpg

Brussow's injury grealy reduced his speed and mobility. This is something I'm expecting him to regain after a while. But he must also implement a change to his "fetching mindset". Today's premier fetchers (Pocock, Hooper) do not try to force turnovers every time they compete for a ball. Most of the time they resort to slowing it down to render momentum on the other side sterile, or to outruck the men protecting the ball (watch Hooper's performance against the Boks). The turnovers they DO force usually take place when the ball carrier goes to the ground near them.

Today's opensides have evolved into more all-round players. Brussow is yet to adapt to the new rules. Can he do it? I think he can. Time will tell.

The answer is pretty simple and that is yes we do. However, whether it is as specialised as a fetcher is arguable but you still need this ability as a pre-requsite. The MaCaws, Pococks etc of this world have this skil set but they also have many other bows to their string that completes the specialisation of this most critical of positions.

If SA think that they can continue without specialisation then they will be the only team on the planet that do so. Either HM has vision and insight that no other coach has and is looking to develop a new type of player or he is simply stupid?

Cruz made a pertinent point that the rules are evolving and those rules are favouring teams that have the ability to adapt to faster attacking rugby and this is to suit the paying public which appears to be dwindling big time in the SH. However, no matter how much it changes you still need to have the basic fetching abilites availble and at this stage in time NZ an OZ do it a lot better than SA

Anyway dont be afraid to disagree with the guys on here all of them have big balls and can take some shit as long as your not talking shit bhwaaaaaa!!

Ragtad you have obviously missed it but Louw did the fetchers role very well. He adds a great deal of physicality and other skills.

Now Meyer noted that Brussouw is carrying injury niggles and will assess him when (and if) he returns to form. You however have not even noticed the absence of form mentioned by Mike and myself etc.

No ragtad wee Brussouw's return to the Bok side does not look imminent for the moment. What you are looking at ragtad - along with the revival in Bok fortunes - is the emmergence of the Beeno power pack. Bwahahahhahahahahahahaha The fundamewntals of rugby do not chance. First fundamental is forward dominance. Page one, sentece 1 of rugby 101!!!!!!!

Beeno enlightening ragtad as to what is happening with the Boks - free of charge nogal.

PS - ditto snapster who is totally at sea regarding Brussouw current form.

@brotherbeens

quote radtad "However, whether it is as specialised as a fetcher is arguable but you still need this ability as a pre-requsite. The MaCaws, Pococks etc of this world have this skil set but they also have many other bows to their string that completes the specialisation of this most critical of positions"

Please re-read then weep then try and be alittle less ignorant - oh by the way you missed it again as usual!

 the answer Dan Dan is NO! The reason is simple, Brussow is only good for fetching - period - with no other attributes! He does not link well with the backline, his small frame does not allow him to cart up the ball like other forwards or clear the ruck effectively!

Apart from that Brussow is an excellent fetcher but I believe Meyer wants more than just a fetcher!

you heard it from me here that that is why Pocock's days at the Wallabies are numbered for similar reasons! He offers nothing else!

No, I think the role of a specialised fetcher is very much overated.  Id rather a player with many other skills than just fetching.  I think every player on the field should have this skill, but many other skills also.    It is becoming apparent that in defensive situations that isolating an attacking player is key to gaining possession so that ANY player forward or back can get their hands on the ball.

Henry

Am in full agreement with what you said.   I am delighted to see you back - was very worried about your absence from the Board.   In the meantime we have a new member from Agentina by the name of Cruz.   Have a look around at his postings - he is an 18 year old playing rugby and I am sure going to go places in the game.   His knowledge of everything on rugby is phenominal.   You can really ask him about New Zealand Rugby as well - and he would give you an objective assessment.    Really an asset to the Board.