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2236 Topic: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 06:13:04

The Springboks have made two changes to their starting 15 to face the All Blacks in a Rugby Championship Test in Dunedin on Saturday.

Lock Flip van der Merwe comes in for Eben Etzebeth, who is sitting out a two-week ban for a head-butt on Wallaby Nathan Sharpe in South Africa's 26-19 loss in Perth last weekend.

The other change is at blindside flanker, where Francois Louw takes the place of Marcell Coetzee, who goes to the bench.

The All Blacks are due to announce their side early on Thursday.

South Africa: Zane Kirchner, Bryan Habana, Jean de Villiers (capt), Frans Steyn, Francois Hougaard, Morne Steyn, Ruan Pienaar, Duane Vermeulen, Willem Alberts, Francois Louw, Juandre Kruger, Flip van der Merwe, Jannie du Plessis, Adriaan Strauss, Tendai Mtawarira.

Reserves: Tiaan Liebenberg, Dean Greyling, Andries Bekker, Marcell Coetzee, Johan Goosen, Juan de Jongh, Pat Lambie.

 

Obviously Heyneke is content with losing!


Bok -Bef$K

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 216
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 06:28:10

We have big big problems, but "as Heyneke nie wil leer, moet hy maar voel".


Username

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1098
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 06:58:21

Morne has done nothing wrong to justify being dropped, just as no other 10 has done anything to justify replacing him. If our pack can finally stand it's ground, our backs can take this game. That team is about as strong as can be given the cir[removed]stances. As always, Bok fans about ten miles off the pace and completely clueless.


lunatic

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 244
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 07:49:40

 Guys be rational!  One cannot allow another Gaffie du Toit situation.  Johan has only played 15 minutes of rugby since April and you want to moer him in there with the bruisers who will be intent on rattling him?  No man!  Give the boy some time to ease himself into a position where he is fully match fit.  Everyone is calling for the head of Morne, but currently he has the experience and still some ability to kick points.

I bet jou, those who call for his head also cheer with tyhe rest when Morne's kicks keep the scoreboard ticking.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 08:55:41

 Hey Guys wait a minute. I am really surprised by the loose forwards. i was not expecting Heynecke to pick a Fetcher, maybe a change in the gain line game plan on the cards? 

Even though Flo is a great player, i have some reservations as he has been playing in the Northern Hemisphere, not so sure if he will adapt fast enough to the pace, but let us hope. Maybe he changes Heynecke's mind totally.

So everyone been going off on the whole Morne thing but no one noted the fact the he made a husge change to the loosies.


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1181
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 09:05:54

Requi I agree with you 100%!!! Our loss last week was not the fault of Morne, it was our forwards that were absolutely nowhere, and that put pressure on our backs. No backline, not even New Zealand's, can perform well if their forwards are being comprehensively outplayed. Morne had a decent game last week, and did nothing to warrant excluding him from the starting line-up. Was it the best performance by a Springbok flyhalf? No, but it was more than respectable when considering how utterly outclassed our forwards were. As for Goosen, bring him on as an impact player with 15-20 mins left in the game, and ease him into the position...as Luna has already said, we don't need another Gaffie Du Toit. And yes, I agree Goosen is special and should definately replace Morne in the not too distant future, but do it in due time.

 

 


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1181
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 09:08:19

Excellent point EK! The change the Boks needed was in the loosies, and that is what has happened. We should be talking that up, not blaming Morne for something that was not his fault.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12596
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 10:06:55

I am very worried about the team and remains so - even though the one thing I expected would be Jannie being available.   I think that the Boks are going to lose by 20+ points - if they don't the AB's would also have to adjust somewhat - since they would not be up to the standards they normally set.    My scoreline predictions are based on fact - not fiction.   Remember ,my prediction of a Wallaby win last week was by 9+ points.   The one thing I did not expect was a try by the Springboks - which in fact reduced the loss to 7 points.

The following problems with the team members have been dealt with extensively in another threaad and I am going to repeat is here with the changes in the team as now announced:-

 15 - Kirchner - Lambie would be a better proposisiton, but will most likely be on the bench. The All Blacks knows that Kirchner is very weak under high balls when pessurised and they will pepper him with those.

14 - Habana - but will he last the whole game and disaster will struck when Mvovo is brought on.

13 - De Villiers - sub-standard in the games against the Argentinians in Mendoza and particularly poor in Perth.

12 - Steyn - not at all acceptable thus far in the tests he played in.

11 - Hougaard - Like him as a wing - but did not really play well in Perth.

10 - Morne Steyn - the most predictable flyhalf of the past 50 years and easily dealth with by the opposition thus far this year. Cannot inititate any backline moves of note.

9 -   Pienaar - Experienced player - but cannot do much on his own

8 - Vermeulen - a hard grinder - but not expereienced on test level

7 - Alberts - way too slow to be a loosie - never at the point of breakdown fast enough to play any roll   Was very poor in Mendoza and Perth as a result.  Would be better utilized as a lock forward.

6 - Louw - was not playing on international level this year and likely to perform moderately.

5 - Kruger - not really the best around - was never in sight against the Wallabies other than when he gave a penalty in front of the posts.

4. -   Flip Van der Merwe -  Bad choice - the only time he was really visible in Mendoza - was the prenalty he gave away in the first line out after he came on.   

3 -   Jannie Du Plessis did not perform well this year and is unlikely to do so on Saturday.   Heaven help us if he gets injured - since Greyling is on the bench.   Greyling probably the worst player in the squad.

2 - Strauss - good on Super 15 level - but way below par on international level. Liebenberg is worse.

1`. Beast - way below par this year.

Another question is - who will do the tackling around the fringes in the absence of Coetzee - and the All Blacks are going to attack along the channel - because our defenders with the exception of Pienaar in the channel are not really up to standard.

Let me go back to the bench as announced.   Mvovo is a disaster as was proved in Perth.   Greyling is absolutely useless and not a props backside.  

 


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 10:29:35

 Forget Johan Goosen for the minute.. Why are we not playing Lambie (more than enough experience) and if the coach shows no confidence in Lambie at 10, why is Butch James not brought back to mentor these youngsters. Butch has been our best flyhalf for some years and although he may be past it, he is a damn site better than what we have. I will tell you all another thing that would be a better option. Charl McCleod  offers a lot more at scrum half at the moment than the 2 we have...He was selected for 1 game then tossed aside. with all our injuries we have, we can still select a good running team

15 Lambie

14 Habana

13 Jordaan

12 Steyn

11 Hougaard

10 James

9 McCleod

8 Vermuelen

7 Alberts

6 Brussouw

5 Bekker

4 Sykes

3 2 1 - whoever scrums the best these days


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12596
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 11:35:30

Boklogic

Although I agree with some of your selections - I have serious problems with some of those.   I rate McCleod as probably the worst scrummie on CC level at present.   His passing is wildly erratic and I can give three examples of those:-

*   The Reds game - passed the ball over the dead ball line.

*   Against the Cheetahs - Viljoen had to catch the ball passed to him by McCleod above his head and did not have time for a relieving kick - passed to Botes (poor pass) and Pretorius scored.

*   Against the Stormers - same problem and the Sharks had to dot down and accept a five yard scrum fed by the Stormers.

Under pressure that guy is not poor - he is horrible.   Anyone - but McCleod please.

All three loosies indicated by you are way too slow to be effective loosies.   They never get to breakdown points and can never contest balls properly.   Brussow is a real liability as a result - he tries to contest in such a situation and in the last few games gave away more penalties than he gained turnovers.   He probably can be tried - but he is a liability and I foresee serious failure by him.   In the last 3 Super 15 games he played in - he gave away 5 kickable penalties - ie 15 points.   Is he really worth that much in turnover of possession?

As you said James is really past tense - and I still believe Goosen is the best youngster coming through.   Would not use James to set an example for him.  

Sykes is definitely better than the Kruger and Flip combination - but not on par with Etzebeth.

 

 

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 12:12:19

 

bluebok
 
Status: Bok regular 
Posts: 531
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 09:08:19

Excellent point EK! The change the Boks needed was in the loosies, and that is what has happened. We should be talking that up, not blaming Morne for something that was not his fault.

 

Wow Blue bok seems you the only other one that noticed. everyone still blabbing on about everything else, except the biggest surprise of all..


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1181
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 12:28:43

What is new in the zoo EK? Most folks on this site are so busy picking on M Steyn, that they forget there are another 21 players in the team. Look Morne is not perfect, but if his forwards are pulling their weight, then he is more than adequate at 10. So coming back to the forwards, I am glad that Meyer has gone with a "fetcher" type player in Flo, because that illustrates a slight change in mindset from him. He is finally starting to see that just playing with gigantic bulldosers is not enough in the modern game. You can't just bully the opposition, you need a balance between power (Vermeulen & Alberts) and ability to recover/poach the ball (Flo). It is not a bad 6,7,8 but I suspect a lack of continuity might be their downfall. Still, a step in the right direction.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1950
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 12:32:03

 I agree Mike. That loose trio is too slow but my thinking is that we need to keep the ball away from the AB's backline as we cant match them. We need to play a forward dominating game. If we can get on top of their forwards, that might contain their dangerous backs a bit. I would like to see players like Kankowski, Daniel and other mobile loosies but they not guys that will get on top of other forward packs physically.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 12:44:02

 Boklogic has a valid point regarding the pace of the Loosies. None of them are the fastest guys around we lose a bit of pace with coetzee not stating but we might gain somethingelse at the breakdown depending on how fast Flo can adjust to the pace in the Southern hemisphere. Bluecok you also bring up a valid point regarding continuety, however i believe Heyneke is stil in the experimental phase by the loks of it. we might expect some more changes in the following games even though i stated previosly that i don't think he might bring in alot of changes. This one change showed interest in evolution. So maybe i might have een wrong in that previos assesment. Hopefully this one pays off though as it is a much more balanced loose trio.

Above all things it shows intent.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 12:51:45

 I bit peeved that we are still seeing under performing bulls players in the team. I agree that it is to early to throw Goosen into the deep end and that we don't want another Gaffie, but then I also think Johan is a much player than Gaffie and has played extremely well in the Super 15 where as Gaffie was plucked from the currie cup playing for the Griquas in a weaker currie cup formate. That said, Lambie has showed over the years that he has the mentality to play at the highest level and would probably be better than Morne.

No idea why he dropped Coetzee, for me Alberts should have shifted to 4. I also have no idea why bekker is on the bench. Is he struggling with injury?

I also think that Jannie is not fit for this game and whether the injury that he is carrying have been a result of his poor form or if he just has been poor. 

finally Flip Flop is our biggest liability, I reckon he will get a yellow card in the first 40 min. 


mcdonald

Status: Ref
Posts: 1
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 12:52:06

i knw ryt,tht guy should not be strtin,i mean thez lambie and if they b[removed] really desperste thez frans steyn,nt morne,he cannot create and sucks at defence.he is almost like cooper bt at least coper can attack and actually scores tries.so drop the idiot,i mean even i can play flyhalf better than morne steyn anyday allday


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11707
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 13:09:20

Ek I am shocked by your comment - Bluecok you also bring up a valid point.  

That said I am surprised at Coetzee being dropped. My loose trio would have been Louw (6) Coetzee (8) and Vermulen (7).

Liebenberg, who is a powerful scrummager, should have started. I would have gone withbekker- is he fit - and Flip. Was it windpomp or someone who showed that flip is no penalty machine  by giving the stats? Yet the idea persists.

I am very thankful that some folk here are understanding that unless we get an edge in the forwards we are in trouble. We had an edge in the first half, a signifcant edge, against oz. However as the subs went on we lost it. Our match 22 is significantly weakened by injuries and this must not be underestimated.

A concern is the fitness of Louw and Vermulen - very little game time.

I to agree with not starting Goosen. Give him some time at the end.

It seems to me that with guys like De Jong, Lambie, Bekker ,Goosen and Coetzee on the bench there will be an injection of attacking flair in the second half? Liebenberg will also liven things up with his barnstorming approach. Silly how some here so underate this  fine player. I like the look of this bench better. However, Greyling will have his hands full if he comes on early at tighthead.

 

 


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1181
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 13:10:00

Yo McDonald, welcome to the Ruckers Forum! Just one suggestion, please type the whole McWord, this isn't BBM! LOL

 

Again, welcome and we look forward to hearing from you regularly.


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1181
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 13:13:02

EK, I assume that Bluecok was a typo (It'd bloody better be!!) But I have a burning suspicion that you have inadvertently created a lasting nickname...unfortuntaely for me. LOL


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 13:17:44

 A warm Welcome to Meeky D's ...

Don't be so shocked beeno, You might fall off your chair..

My sincerest Appologies Bleubock. My fingersaretothinckforthekeyboard.... Some nicks come from the silliestm mistakes. :)

beeno, I agreee with you regarding Greyling. Why would you go into a game knowing that your tighthead is carrying a niggle and still picking a Loosehead on the bench. Even with Malherbe in the squad If he was on the bench we would not have cover on the Looshead as i dno't know if he can cover that.

Maybe JC Janse van Rensburg would have been a better option as a call up as he can cover both if I am not mistaken. Or even a shock call up for CJ or Deon Carstens.... This move is very risky.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 13:29:57

 Can a coach still get the best out of CJ, if he is fit he can be an exceptional player but for the last 2 years he was injured at the Stormers and was primarely used as a utility forward, the same at the lions. He is still young in prop terms and I can see that we can turn him into the next Os, he just need a coach that knows how to work with him.

Your tight head is the corner stone of your team, if you are weak here your whole team suffer. Jake brought Os out of retirement and managed him well ove the four years even though he hardly played any super or currie games. He was always the first player on Jakes team sheet. People questioned whether Os still had it in him but he end up playing the entire last 80 min of the world cup. 

Perhaps if CJ is in the right environment we can have a fearful front row once more. For me beast and Jannie are nothing without Bismark. 

Or front rowers don't install fear in oppositions. 

Mayber a few hard lessons needs to be learnt up north. Both WP Nel and Guthrow came back better scrummegers after playing in a mid week bok team that got completely dismantled by a 2nd string club team. At super rugby you might get away with a week scrum but not at test level. Even the wobblies up the ante when it comes to scrums.


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 13:38:13

 Kigcorn, My appologies I don't really like to be this padantic. but you can't rate Os and CJ the Same Way.

CJ is primarily a bench prop, as he can play both sides and mostly you can only utilise one Prop on the Bench, same with Deon Carstens and Pat Cilliers.

Os on the otherhand is a starting Loosehead, there is no way in hell that Os would have played Tighthead except when reallly really in a pinch. From there my argument regarding Greyling. He is an out and out Loosehead like Os was, so we don't have cover at tighthead from the bench. If Jannie,gets hurt we are in big trouble.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12596
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 19:04:30

We are in trouble anyway - Greyling is weak as a prop - a real problem - and if Jannie has to come off scrumming will be a penalty disaster.     I would rather have gone with Malherbe on the bench - can remember the Super 15 game - when he scrummed Greyling into the ground.   That one should NEVER have been in the squad.

With De Jongh on th bench I assume they are trying to cover the center and wing positions.   De Jongh  is a farce on attack - but reasonably good in defence.   Will contribute zero to attacking play.

 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3603
RE: Morne still starts!! F#*k u Heyneke!
September 12, 2012, 22:15:02

 What is even more exiting about Greyling is that he might play tighthead prop. He is a loosehead prop for the Bulls. Meyer has said that he allways thought graylings future was at tighthead. He is going to get killed against the All Black scrum. However looking at the positives, at least it is not the useless WP Kruger. The mere sight of that monkey on the field annoys me. 


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