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1932 Topic: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 13, 2012, 11:55:13

Looking at Meyers squad one would notice that there are a few players that clearly been out of form and does not warrant their place in the Squad.

Some of the players that springs to mind are Francois Hougaard, Zane Kirchner, Jacques Potgieter, Pierre Spies, Morné Steyn, Flip van der Merwe. When Meyer selects his starting 15, three of these players will most definitely be chosen. I believe that it will be a mistake on Meyer’s part as they have clearly been out of form and trying to use the boks to play them into form will only end up costing the boks. I believe that the coach my fall into the trap of blind loyalty like so many other coaches when hard decisions will need to be made. I think it would be better for those players out of form to go back to their Currie cup teams and work on their short comings and work their way back into the squad rather than being there because of past reputation and relationships. 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 13, 2012, 14:11:03

as always kingkorn your on the money buddy....we will have to wait and see how this will playout during the castle comp. there is some players with huge question marks to them so it will ultimatly make of break meyer if he ignores this


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8382
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 13, 2012, 14:14:01

 Let's be clear, we are not talking about form inmost cases. Kirchner has never been Bok material. Spies has hardly played a decent game since his health issue in 07. Potgieter and Flip are dumb players who have already been exposed attest level.

 

Morne is in a slump, but it's a kicking issue.....hisgeneralplay is much as always.....not asbadassome suggest, but not what we wouldideallywant.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8382
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 13, 2012, 14:16:29

Looking at my last post, who needs spaces? Contiguous words save so much space!


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 13, 2012, 14:18:59

well said moz

 

to be fair kicking is his only strong suite so there is say without his kicking he is useless


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 13, 2012, 17:03:21

Meyer should have used the test series against England to try new combinations. Spies, Hougaard and Steyn clearly miss fired but he wasn’t brave enough to make a decision after the first test. I know that we had a few injury problems with Bekker not being available but what end up happening is that we ended up drawing the last game when Steyn clearly was out of form. Jantjies at the time look like a much better prospect at 10. We had nothing to lose if Steyn whent off.

 As for Potgieter, all this guy wants to do is to run hard, but I almost fell of my chair laughing when I saw him face plant into the ground after one player decided to take him around the ankles. The only place to tackle a player with no braincell and ball skills. The bigger they are the harder they fall. 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12596
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 13, 2012, 23:25:35

Of the players mentioned as in the squad - I do not think that Kirchner is Springbo material   Spies is on the team in vacation - with him there the team consist of 14 players 90% of the time during which time he does nothing at all.   The other 10% he is visible - but generally not effective.   This guy shiuld not be in the Springbok squad at all,   Then add Potgieter and Greyling also.   Potgiter is a dolt and I cannot see how he can even be in the squad - leave alone leave alone in the team or on the bench.   He is big and strong - but has no ball skills.   Geyling is a joke in bad tatse,

That leaves us with Hougaard and Steyn.   Despite Hougaards erratice passing and poor kicks - he is probably one player that could play well if and when he start thinking about games.   Some strategic skills development program would no doubt benefit him - he does have the capacity to improve.

The guy that has been discussed on this site more than anybody else is Morne Steyn - his name always come up in virtually every second post on selection and performance.   That means he is a controversial selection.   However, all commentators agree on Morne and the following points are evident:-

*   Morne has never been a great playmaker as he is one-dmensional ad his game centers around kicking.   That implies strategic kicking - line kicking and goal kicking.   Inj this case Steyn was badly out of form in th English series.    His goal kicking was below par and his strategic and line kicking was even worse.   The latest coaching is all aimed at upgrading his kicking.

 *  Without the kicking component - apparently the pivot in Meyer's game plan - Morne really has very little of value to add to his repertoire.   He stands too far back to link effectively with the backline players - he is standing still when he receives balls - meaning that he cannot make effective attacking play possible

I never regarded Morne as a good attacking flyhalf - hias performances always relates to kicking.   problem is further - he is the main reason why the backline is not firing.  There is and remain - despite all the talk - serious question marks as to his selection..    There is one thing that is abudently clear - despite all our moan groan and beating on the chest and shouting and sceaming.- there is no way that Meyer will drop Morne from  the team 


radtad1

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 273
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 14, 2012, 00:27:36

Gentlemen,

 

Good points by all and we all seem to agree about where the majority of the issues lye with the HM's thinking around the modus operandi of the Boks.

 

One dangerous game I think he is playing with his selections which goes against a principle is that with his selections he does not create an environment of competitiveness amongst the BOK hopefuls pushing for starting positions.

 

If form is not a catalyst to a start, or consistency is not rated highly by HM then what is it that he wanting?

 

If we have this environment of loyalty then we run the risk of creating a dangerous culture of favourtism and not earning or living off how good you use to be - rather than how well you have improved and advanced your game and thought processing to reaching the pinnacle of wanting too be the best.

 

Loyalty is important as it creates unity and a team bonding, however itt needs to be managed. I am sure HM is not silly and his record suggest so. However, as many have noted on here. This is new ground and the highest test of anyones rugby knowledge, skill, experience, patience and virtue.

 

Many a great coach has gone through traumatic losses and amazing success - HM will have to go through the exact same and we will have to bear the burden with him  and our beloved BOKs.

 

We will give him time and he will be judged from his success rate no matter what good he brings to the team. I just hope that SARU keep their corrupt and ignorant activities as far away from HM so that he is judged on his actions and not by political decisions which may skew his plan.

 

The Argies will be a good test this week and will come hard at the Boks. However, we all know that the RC doesn't start until we face the Wallabies and AB's.......HM will start earning his high salary when we do......


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 14, 2012, 10:45:07

 My biggest fear is that an reliance on some names or the excuse of experience should help the Squad. We saw what happened when we had the like of Matfield, Du Preez and Smit playing in the last world cup. These guys never had to fight for their places and I would be really pissed off if this continues. 

That is the whole point of having a sqaud to enable you to creat compitition. At this stage I would even opt for Jantjies, his kicking is good, fantastic little attacking player, great vision. My only problem with has been his defence but it seems that he has stepped up in the last 6 months. 

In the past coaches used to drop players really quickly, Jake came on and decided to allow players to settle into the team but was also ruthless when it mattered. He dropped Barry and Joubert when they could no longer perform. De Villiers just hanged on to guys way to long and I'm afraid that Meyer is doing the same in holding on to Steyn and Spies. I don't care how much he can bench press. All I want to see is what he does on the field. If he had half the heart and work ethic that Alberts have he would be amazing. Even old Kankow started to get a hard edge in the last couple of games. I was pleasantly supprised seeing clearing out rucks and putting players on their arses. 

Time for Meyer to make brave dicisions, nothing ventured nothing gained. He has a four year contract and he can afford to cut the fat and not worry about results. 


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 518
RE: The Springbok team is not the place to try and play players into form!!!!
August 15, 2012, 14:01:35

 So Meyer has gone ahead and selected out of form bulls players. I believe the team may be strong to beat the pumas but not the NZ or Aus. How he can include the following player is beyond me

Zane Kirchner

Morné Steyn

Flip van der Merwe

Jacques Potgieter

JJ Engelbrecht

 

Flip is a walking yellow card, Side Show offers nothing and neither does Potskieter. Morney can't even kick the side of a barn at the moment. 


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