The Ruckers Forum

Forum » Rugby » Springboks » Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
Login to reply
 
 
 
1719 Topic: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1933
Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 13:07:39

I cant help but feel we are going to miss Fourie Du Preez for many years to come. Francois is hit and miss at 9 and I believe he expresses himself a whole lot better on the wing.


Bok -Bef$K

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 216
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 13:12:36

Look IMHO is Hougaard a very talented player, but lack some skills to be a brilliant all round halfback. His kicking is poor and sometimes his nowehre to be found ruck time. Vermaak is a better all round halfback at the moment.

For the Rugby Championship I will use Ruan Pienaan with Hougaard on thew bench to be used as impact player.


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1933
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 13:18:12

What about Piet Van Zyl from the cheaters. He looks like he has what it takes. I have not seen a whole lot of him but from what I have seen, he looks like he has a big future.


mozart

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8194
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 13:20:26

Hougaard is not settling in well....back at scrummie. He continues to do monumental attacking work and his defensive range is hugely impressive.....there is no doubt. But he is not providing smooth decision making at 9. By the end of the TN I expect Pienaar to be the incumbent.


bluebok

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1169
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 13:22:24

Hougard is still young guys, a little refinement and he could be one of the best ever!!! I agree he has some things that need sorting out, but he is still freakishly strong for his size, and has masses of X-Factor, and is very fast. He just needs to be tamed...a little.


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11427
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 13:29:19

Bokbef Vermaak keeps on impressing when he comes on for the bulle. He is a handful and the whole game seesm t ospeed up for thebulle when he comes on.

Pienaar is good tactically with his kicking etc but doesn't attack himself much at all and is not a physical player. He needs to get stuck in. Has great talent but avoids the hard stuff.

Hougaard is difficult to let go of because h is such a great athlete. One keeps hoping he will settle.

Like to see Vermaak getting a shot hogaard on the bench. Worth a try. Vermaak did himself no favours going to warm the bench at the bulle.

Van Zyl started off very well but has gone quieter as the season went on. Finding it hard going?


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1933
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 13:29:51

They have got to be careful with Hougaard as since he burst onto the Bok scene, he has been the "go to man" when we have needed magic and what a revelation he was in the world cup whenever he came on. I sense he is just trying to hard and needs to settle and let it come naturally to him. Everyone expects magic everytime he touches the ball and I reckon he knows that. Scrum half is a completely different role to that of an off the bench, impact winger with the freedom to try things. I think all above posts are right. With the right guidance and leadership, we will have ourselves another Joost.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 14:05:00

hougaard has a lot of weapons to his disposal but his biggest issue might just be this is his first full season at no9 so for me he might still be ajusting to the mantel of being the bulls no1. i dont know. i feel he will perform better in a game plan that is quick and relentless. he just as spies tends to not excel in the slower trench like game pattern but is more suited to quicker unstructured play. he feel he offers more as a replacement seeing he can double up as a winger. pienaar has been more stable that being said he really needs to play his rugby in SA i feel. hope he rejoins at the sharks.


garethedwards

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 240
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 14:14:15

Pienaar for me is much better choice with the current setup. If we had to swap out the loosies for some faster, more dynamic fetchers and breakdown players, who can turn that ball over and get us quicker ball, then Hougaard should be there for sure. He plays a very similar style to Will Genia and needs people like Pocock around him to help.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 14:19:38

very well said gareth....certain players skillsets compliment other players skillsets. a player like hougaard played at his best during the RWC when brussow and co really made the breakdown a lot quicker and the defensive lines were not ver organised at the most of times because of the quick ball that was generated. if one has a look at the england series our ball was very very very slow due to our one dimensional lose trio and forwards not generating that quick ball.


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 512
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 14:28:48

Stop using Hougaard as an impact player, if he is not doing his job, chuck him to the bench until he gets it right, don't use him on the wing. He needs to learn if you don't perform that there is no fall back position. 

I would go for Pienaar in the championship, he was voted the best player in Europe and his class is finally coming out now. If he keeps going at the current rate he can become the bok 9 for at least the next 2 years. What I would like to see from Hougaard is that he needs to learn to vary his game, work on getting your back line moving and use the phases. That is why Pienaar is brilliant.

I think that the boks would do extremly well with this backline

9 Pienaar
10 Grant
11 Habana
12 Steyn
13 De Villiers
14 JP Pietersen
15 Aplon

In having Pienaar at 9 would take tactical kicking Burden of Brant, Frans can slot the long kicks and Grant can get us over the gain line but at the same time add some tactical kicking. Grant's kicking at goal has been the best in the comp. In having these players all of your kicking basis are covered. 

 


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 14:31:47

 kingkorn, i like your backline. Maybe not Aplon, I'd Like to play him off the bench. i would like a fullback with a bigger boot, to start the game with. Then Bring Aplon in later to attack from the back.


garethedwards

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 240
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 14:33:13

I would not waste Lambie and Aplon could also fill in as a wing, so playing him off the bench is not such a bad idea.


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 14:49:35
very decent backline but i agree with lambie at 15. aplon covers more positions so thus giving more options if he is on the bench


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 512
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 16:29:50

 For me Lambie is not a 15, he has done really well but I would choose him at 10 for the time being while Goosen matures into a world class 10. 

15 is a big head ache at the moment, I would almost gamble and put either JP Pietersen at 15 since that is where he made his name for the sharks or go for an outsider such as Taute. By moving JP to fullback, we will have room for one of our other wingers such a Mvovo who has done really well. JP would be great in taking high balls, solid last line of defence, fantastic at joining the line, he can kick but may need some extra work on his kicking. 


carpetmuncher

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1396
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 16:35:53

not a bad idea king....that being said he just needs to play there more offten. the 13 experiment failed and he showed how much class he does have when he plays his wing position. we just lack in a proper attacking 15 in south africa. we do tend to breed the robotic kicker type 15 like zana and jo peterson. we need a 15 that likes to join the line and attack more.


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12400
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 17:45:14

I am going to be very rough here.  I believe that scrummie is "borne"  into that position - they can never really learn ball sense when moved to a position where decisionmaking is of paramount importance.   If we think of great scummies of the past - like Dawie De Villiers and Serfontein - they were great decisionmakers on the spur of the moment.   That cannot be drilled into people - it must come to them naturally.   I do not think that Hougaard is a "natural" scrummie.   He wants to attack forwards twice his size - which is not a natural play of scrummies.

When people say that Pienaar foir instance is not physical enough and do not go for the hard stuff - I can only stare in amazement.   The hard stuff referred to are actually where back line play is detroyed.

I am also amazed about the hero-worship of St Fourie Du Preez.   He was never a natural scrummie - and Hougaard being absent to receive balls coming out of maul situations - I wander who taught him that.   The great missing peron was often St Fourie - who had no real instincts about how to mangae balls going back to his backline.

Most of the other examples of standing around behind maulls and waving your arms at players also came from one source.   It started with Joost and was carried forward by   Fourie Du Preez.   I would not like a new scrummie to copy techniques that is detrimental to backline play.   LET ME BE QUITE FRANK - THE ROLE OF A SCRUMMIE IS TO GET THE BALL EFFECTIVELY AND QUICKLY TO THE BACK LINE AND IN RARE INSTANCES AS A VARIATION TO TRY BOX KICKS  - NOT TO BECOME A LOOSIE IN DISGUISE OR ANYTHING ELSE.I have learnt one thing in all the years I watched Joost and Fourie playing - a more predictable mixture nobody could ever procduced and the opposition knew ten minutes in advance - what counter-measures should be taken.

Is Hougaard a natural scrummie - he is efinitely not.   He does not have the natural instincts for that position - and I do believe he is better as a wing - not as a scrummie.   I do not think he is a permanent soulution as scrummie and we should actually not place the whole backline at a disadvantage because of this guy,


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3543
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 19:43:36

 Pienaar is a better scrumhalf, and Hougaard is a better wing. 

On front foot attack, and as an impact player he is good at scrum half. 

However on the back foot he is very slow to- dig the ball out of rucks, and also to clear it to his backline.

He does not have a scrum half presence at rucks with referees as well. Watch Piennar or Fourie Dupreez at the base of a ruck and they control the offside line. They know when to stand back, when to dig for the ball and stand next to the referee commentating the game- when the opposition starts to infringe- the likes of McCheat- caw


radtad1

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 273
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 22:29:48

One thing is definate and for sure we will find out very soon in the RC against the AB's and Wallabies whether or not we have a solution or a serious problem?

 

There will be no room to hide and decision making goes up exponentially against what we see at Super rugby level.

 

We can only assume until HM names his squad as to what his tactics will be. Accept that Macaw and Pocock will push the limits and will challenge our halves, however my only concern is that if things go awry lets hope we have a backup plan and not destroy the confidence of Hougard.

 

Question guys do we have the depth at halve for international level? I think not at this moment


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8763
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 22:50:28

I really dont get what the issue is with Hougaard at all. Its madness. He had one or two below par games was back to his best a week ago and had a solid game on Sat in a under achieving Bulls side.

He is the best attacking and defensive 9 in the game and has a damn good service - his boot is his weakness, but hardly an issue other when he gets charged down. He will be our incumbent for years - the idea of wasting him on the wing is utter madness


Boklogic

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1933
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 23:20:10

Saffex, that takes us right back to the very first comment on this blog from me. "Francois is hit an miss at 9!" Sure, at times, he plays really well at 9 but for every good game he has at 9, he is having 2 below par games. I would not say poor games because that is being harsh. As a Bok player at test level, below par just does no cut it when it is happening too often. Consistency is what its all about. For a scrummie to be "off his game" on the day, it impacts a lot of things and the way a lot of others play. At test level if you are not on your game, you will be exposed against the better teams. Even as a wing. Look how Ireland exposed Julian Savea in the second test. Teams do plenty homework on their opposition before a game and the likes of the AB's and Aus will expose Hougaard. I am pro-Hougaard and think he has done a fantastic job in the green and gold to date but I just want to see the Boks do well and for that reason, I want our best players in their positions to play. I think Pienaar is that for us at 9 at the moment.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8763
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 23, 2012, 23:50:41

Disagree, he has had a handful of below par games.......for the rest he has been as classy as ever. There should never be a single question raised against this guy......he is in the same league as Bismark, JP and Frans in the Bok side - no questions asked.


radtad1

Status: Baby Bok
Posts: 273
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 24, 2012, 01:22:31

saff,

 

sadly houggard has hadbad games when we didnt want him to do and that was against the best opposition when the pressure is on the most.

 

As  for the most attacking and defensive half in the game are you refering to SA, superrugby or international?

 

If you are saying SA then I fully agree. However, if you are going further afield and stating Super rugby and international then I am sorry but I will have to disagree with you strongly as I would put at least 3 or 4 other half backs that have skills sets, experience and x factor on par if not better than Hougard?

 

Genia ( by far the best in the world),

Ellis (who really gave him a lesson in the quarters),

Mike Phillips,

Aron smith has the fastest pass on the planet and when he came on agaisnt the Reds he made a massive difference against Genia

All I am saying is that as a half we need him doing well when the heat is on and not being a flat track bully - but as I said we will see when the AB's and the Wallabies come to town.

 

Lets not forget that Argentina will be bloody hard to beat at home so we need to be on our guard


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 12400
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 24, 2012, 05:43:15

Saffex

Sorry - I have to agree here with boklogic and radtad - Hougaard under pressure is not a nice sight to see - and he is going to be under pressure on international level.   i stand by my position on scrummies - he is not a good scrummy - because he does not have the natural instincts that is required in that position - end of story.

Kingcorn

I like your backline - but would rather play Lambie at full back - or if he is injured Taute.   As was pointed out - Aplon should be on the bench - he is excellent from that perspective.

I would prefer Grant over Lambie at flyhalf.   Despite all Saffex's comments. Jantjies is mediocre - especially in defence and the only side that would cheer his selection would be the opposing teams.  Steyn has gone badly in reverse.   Taking into account both his attacking skils and goal kicking - there is to my mind only one candidate for flyhalf whilst Goosen is injured - and that is Grant.  In he Super 15 this year Grant was the initiater in most tries scored by the Stormers - so that is also to me a consideration - and his goal kicking was sublime.

However, Meyer would never abondon both his key player and his game plan - unless forced to do so by constant losses - and Morne will be with us for the time being.

 


Sharkbok

Status: Senior player
Posts: 3543
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 24, 2012, 05:51:32

For Scrum halfs and flyhalfs it is much easier to play behind a winning pack. I think Naas Botha has a famous saying about this. Basically the best scrummies and flyhalfs can still play behind packs that are being dominated to create space for the backline by passing into space, or apply tactical kicks. 

Hougaard took about a 1 million years to get the ball out of the ruck, and then he still has to turn around and find his flyhalf. It is awareness and presence. 

Bring in Ruan Pienaar. Their is currently no Bull that should be in the starting xv based on merit for the boks. The bulls can do what they want- but for the boks let sanity prevail. 


kingcorn

Status: Squad member
Posts: 512
RE: Is Francois Hougaard the answer at 9?
July 24, 2012, 10:29:20

 yes, perhaps Aplon is not the best fullback and probaby better off playing wing or as an impact player. We just need a quality 15. 

On the scrumhalf side, as a player Hougaard has impressed me but his scrumhalf play has been mediocre all season. The only thing people see is his breaks and runs for the try line but they don't look at what else he does. Now the real question is. How would you rate the Scrumhalfs available to the boks

1. Pienaar
2. Vermaak
3. Duvenage
4. Hougaard
5. Bondiso
6. Tewis De Bruyn
7. Mcloud (Don't rate him at all)


Leave a reply:

You need to be logged in to leave a reply.
 
 

From The Sideline