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1106 Topic: Springbok Squad thoughts
flashdakota

Status: Squad member
Posts: 320
Springbok Squad thoughts
June 02, 2012, 21:17:39

What more does Siya Kolisi need to do? He has been epic this season!

Great to see Jacques Potgieter and the Sharks loosies in there though! Keagan Daniel has also been awesome.

Great to see both Lambie and Jantjies in the squad.

 

Typical Heyneke.... Olivier is terrible in the Bok jersey! But Heyneke will stick with what he knows. Guess one has to commend that.

Engelbrecht is a bit of a surprise???

 

 

Still no comment on the captain though?


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10904
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 02, 2012, 21:28:03

Not sure I got down every name but it appears the stormers got 3 in and the bulle 12. One wonders how a second string Stormers managed to beat the bulle in an away game like just happened. Bwahahahahahahahahahahahaha

But Meyer shoudl be able to pick a good side from that lot.

Great rest for Stormers re Super comp.

 


clevermike

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 11906
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 02, 2012, 21:33:40

One major step forward is that Du Preez is not in the squad.   i cannot see how he can be added to the 30 without being in at present.   So Du Preez is out - thank heavens.   Now for the rest of the squad.   Fact is the Bulls with a questionable string of poor performances can potentially make up the whole team by their 12 representatives.   Agianst that - the team second on the log - has three players in the group of 30.    

Weird arithmatic that is it not. 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 02, 2012, 22:11:26

 Big shock is the omission of Brussouw, but great to see that none of the small pretenders are in - de Jongh, Ebersohn, Joe and Aplon are not up to test rugby and Meyer knows it.

What the hell is Franco v/d Merwe doing in the squad, strange call.

Jantjies showed in the game against the Sharks why he is in that squad, what a great feel that kid has for those around him, that chip kick was awesome as are his hands.

Kolisi is one hell of a player and should have been included without a doubt. If we are not going to play Brussouw at 6, then it has to be Kolisi.

Noteable missing players are Greyling, Elstadt, Kolisi, CJ Stander and Josh Strauss.

Given the squad, who is going to play openside - Daniel 


Beeno1

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 10904
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 02, 2012, 22:16:57

the logic is that the Stormers forwards are too young but Coetzee isnt.

The backs cant score tries.

Hence we only have 3. Great though from the point of getting our guys fresh for super comp. Schalk, Bekker and Duanne would have been there,

Is Jaque Potgieter better than Elstadt or Kirchner better than Joe. Frankly Deon Fourie is also better than Chilli Boy as well. Olivier was also lucky to make it. When in doubt go for the bulle.

Anyhow the die is cast so lets hope they can thump the poms.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 02, 2012, 22:38:31

 Rubbish, Chiliboy is far better than Fourie. Fourie is better than Liebenberg though. Jacques Potgieter is a great player, but then so are Kolisi and Elstadt - both should have been included. Elstadt ahead of Franco v/d Merwe and Kolisi ahead of Kankan


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 02, 2012, 23:44:28

 Strange to have the Stormers so poorly represented, Kankowski, Kirchner, Olivier and to a certain extent Daniels should buy lottery tickets.  Will the politicians be happy with this side??  Makes the Kolisi non-selection even more strange..

 

Surely Duane/Schalk/Bekker, definites to return when fit - JDV to captain the side, unless he rolls with Spies, which would be cock up.

 

Not bad for an AB supporter right?


flashdakota

Status: Squad member
Posts: 320
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 00:18:55

@Saf..

Agree on Jantjies. He really does have a great feel for the game.

I hope he is allowed to settle at 10 with Lambo staying at 15 and Frans at 12.

 

Agree on Brussouw.

He has been in good nick this season. He deserves a starting berth... mind you KD hasn't been half bad,


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 00:40:45

Spot on flash, Jantjies is a rare talent - the closest thing we have to Quade Cooper - you just cant coach that kind of instict and touch. Would love to see him play in the company of Hougaard, Frans, JP, Taute, Lambie, JJ, Jordaan, Mvovo and co


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 10:50:18

 In a word: BIASED!


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 10:52:56

 In a word: BIASED!


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 12:32:09

So Stormer 77, who other than Kolisi and Elstadt from the Stormers should have made the Bok squad, given Kitshoff, Bekker, Schalk and Vermeulen are not available?


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 13:04:49

 @ Saffex: Gio Aplon and Jean De Jongh.I don't see how a RESERVE scrumhalf can make the team other thant he fact he plays for Heyneke Meyer's beloved Bulls.JJ Engelbrecht didn't even start games at the beginning of the season,in fact the majority.

 


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 13:06:11

 No Peter Grant.Elton janties is a Currie Cup flyhalf,nothing more


Benjamin

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 28
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 13:12:08

Agree as a Sharks fan AND somebody in favor of developing players that to omit Aplon, De Jong and Kolisi was shocking. To suggest that these three are not ON MERIT deserving of inclusion in the squad, if not the starting 15, is to either have blue-shades on or racism finished and klaar!


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 13:19:47

Sarel Pretorius..............he's no jano vermaak


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 13:46:11

Stormer77, sorry but Meyer has got it spot on with Aplon and de Jongh, these two are just too small for test rugby. Test rugby is a step up from S15, defensive patterns and lines are that much tighter. You need both skill and size to make a difference, these guys have skill no size. If you cant beat your man through a step or rounding him, you need to impose yourself physically. Commit the defender in contact and offload, these little guys cant do that......sure they tackle low and bring their men down but they can never exert any physical pressure on their opponent.

Just take a look at the top 8 test sides playing today, there are no small guys playing wing, fullback or centre.

While Duvenhage is a solid 9 and has a case for maybe being ahead of Vermaak, neither are going to make the match 22. Vermaak is a quality 9 and is only on the bench because Hougaard one of the best backs in the game is ahead of him. Sarel Pretorius is piss poor, the guy cant pass hence being dropped throughout the season by the Tahs.

As for Jantjies, the kid is pure class, has a brilliant feel for the game. Grant is solid and a better bet than Morne, but Grant and Morne in the side together would be so conservative and sterile.

I am no Bulls, Stormers, Sharks, Lions or Cheetahs supporter as I am from the East Cape and live in England, but Meyer has got his selection right, bar the inclusion of Franco v/d Merwe and the exclusion of Brussouw, Kolisi, Elstadt, CJ Stander and Josh Strauss.........these players deserved it ahead of v/d Merwe, Alberts and Kankan.......but saying that I rate Alberts and Kankan so can live with their inclusion.

But there is no place for little guys in test rugby unless they are really special and lets face it de Jongh is hardly special


Arthur John

Status: Squad member
Posts: 597
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 15:10:33

 Some major surprises.....if you are not a Bulls supporter.

Folks on the Jantjies issue he  might be a good S15 flyhalf but not a Test flyhalf.

He would not have made the squad if Goosen was available.

Any SA test squad with two v/d merwes in it is suspect.

On the race/colour front some people would never be happy even with 15 black players taking the field.

Selection on merit guys not on colour. Remember select the best not the rest.

We are all South Africans right??????????

I will be proud and support all players who wear the Green and Gold.


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 17:23:47

 Ah the too small excuse.

 

There's a little footballer from Argentina called Messi..............

Xavi,Iniesta et al.


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 17:29:15

 Too small for test rugby............remember Neil Back?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 17:37:44

Um Neil Back was how many years back???

I'm talking todays test rugby where you will not find fullbacks, wings or centres weighing less than 90kg's, but more than likely not less than 95kg's......its the modern trend. Go check the modern test sides, size counts these days.

The only small guy I can think of is Halfpenny of Wales who himself looks like a bodybuilder these days

 


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 19:12:11

Harry Robinson 83kg of Wales, he says you don't know sh!t Dave.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 19:26:27

 He has no chance in hell of starting regularly for Wales. Their first choice wings are both 104kg's and class acts with their back-up being another monster, who played yesterday for Wales as well.

Not sure why you mention this kid, is he a Welsh incumbent????????


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 19:28:12

 Dave, he started in Wales's last match...so yes.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 19:38:49

 Oh dont be so bloody stupid, that was a Welsh second string side - please dont pull a Moz on me and be that stupid.......next you will be telling me North and Cuthbert are not the Welsh incumbent wings? Man talk about easy pickings, when will you lot ever learn???


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 20:23:38

 Look up the definition on incumbent and come back and apologise to the board for being soo stupid...

 

Dave he may not start the next test that Wales play but the fact Gatland has included an 18 y/o 83kg wing in his touring side suggests he sees something special in him, I'm picking he'lll play quite a few tests...kind of like Leigh Halfpenny...and Shane Williams actually, wonder what these guys have in common.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 20:33:52

 I dont need to look up anything other than to tell you that the Welsh INCUMBENT wings are North and Cuthbert - FACT.

Being in a squad of 30 means nothing until this kid gets a few starts if he is lucky in full blown test matches and when/if he does it wont amount to much as I have seen him play and he is no Williams or Halfpenny.

While on Halfpenny, have you seen him lately - the kid looks like a bodybuilder, wonder why that is?


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 20:42:01

 Really?? His profile has him at 83kg's - you're not suggesting there's a difference between weight and strength are you Dave?...Down goes Dave again.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 20:48:54

 Man you are thick, are you saying these profiles are always up to date? I asked you a question have you seen Halfpenny recently?


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:11:13

 Right - well I've produced two sourcea quoting his weight see below at 83 and 85kg's, one from 2011 - maybe you should do the same...(cue Dave's regular 'I don't need a source I can tell how much he weighs from my couch in front of the telly).

 

How do you intend on apologising Dave?

 

wc.planetrugby.com/wales/squad/profile_leigh_halfpenny_248070

 

www.wru.co.uk/eng/matchcentre/wales_seniors.php


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:21:18

 Nothing to apologise for sunshine, I dont know how much the lad weighs, all I said was that he had muscled up in a big way - FACT


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:24:27

"Man you are thick, are you saying these profiles are always up to date?"

 

Not surprising at all


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:25:58

 Well its a fact, do i mention his weight here huh??

Here we go girlfriend

http://www.menshealth.co.uk/building-muscle/get-big/leigh-halfpenny-muscle-workout


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:29:54

 Thanks Dave - you're too stupid to realise your proving all your points about being too small to play test rugby wrong, apparently you can be under 90kg's and be strong, in which case you're good to go in the test match arena.

 

You should send and email to Gio and JDJ...you're still at Dave.S@dumbbrick.com?


becs

Status: Squad member
Posts: 600
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:29:56

Harry Robinson played half a match to see how he got on in a Test situation. Apart from a breakaway try, he didn't do a lot.

Rob Howley has been in charge of selection whilst their dear leader recovers from his shattered heels at home in NZ.

Cuthburt and North, both English by the way, are seemingly the wings of choice for Wales at this moment in time.

Christian Wade is a very slight young man but has travelled to SA and will get a run out of some description.


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:34:23

 Wow Dave's knight in high heels rides in to save the day...

 

Sorry Becs but that's not how your state owned broadcaster is reporting events.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:37:10

 No poohie the only thick prick on here is you......I have not proved anything other than the fact that Halfpenny for a reason has bulked up in a big way as you can see for yourself.

I have also repeatedly said that there are no under 90kg players playing centre, wing or fullback for NZ, Oz, England, Wales, Ireland and SA other than Halfpenny of Wales......chances are with all that bulk he is sitting around the 90kg mark unless of course you dont think he has put on 5kg of muscle from that profile stat you kindly provided where he is 85kg


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:40:32

 Yeah except I posted his wales profile and his planet rugby RWC profile which quote his weight....you posted a f**king Mens Health magazine article, which didn't??!!  Dear lord Dave...I don't make a habit of embarrassing the disadvantaged but I'll make an exception for you.


becs

Status: Squad member
Posts: 600
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:48:57

If you are talking about BBC Wales you will find it to be a biased opinion and all players selected for the country are better than anything any of you have to offer.

Did you watch the match ? Did he stay on for 80 minutes ? Did even Jonathan Davies, one of the most biased men known to commentate on the game, have to admit that he was, understandably a little bit out of his depth at points ? The boy is a teenager with talent. To say he will be displacing North and Cuthburt is not true at this stage. Who knows what the future will bring ?

I think an " incumbant " really has to have been selected more than once and even played an entire match. You clearly think differently.

I don't wear high heels on account of being a cripple, nor do I remotely agree with all of what Saffex likes to say about Rugby. In fact, we disagree on as much as we agree, I would say.

So stop trying to deflect from your errors by turning things to make comment on yet more issues you do not understand.

 


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:49:07

 Even in a Sport without quotas,we still don't pick our best players.Pity.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:49:55

 What are you on about you fool. You banged on about his profile, I never mentioned his weight at all, I only mentioned he had bulked up for a reason and provided a link.....you struggling to grasp the basics here?


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:53:29

 Its a good thing soccer and cricket don't judge people on how tall they are(Messi,Tendulkar)


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 21:55:16

 Last I checked, rugby was a physical game - next you will be telling me cricket and football are - oh boy!!!!!


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 22:09:35

 There you go proving your point wrong again...you state the cut-off for rugby players weight is 90kg's in the test arena, I clearly name 2 recent sources that have Leigh Halfpenny at under 90kg's, and your counter is "but he's strong", goalpost shifting, down goes Dave.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 22:21:05

 I have asked this before, but are you really really stupid?

Where on earth did I mention strength, bulking up means adding weight - yes strength comes into it, but did I mention strength wise man?

I will say it one more time - I mentioned 90kgs as a cut off bar Halfpenny being the only exception I could think of.......do you want me to draw pictures for you from now on. 

All this aside, chances are Halfpenny is close to 90kg these days after all that bulking up. Now why do you think he felt the need to bulk up so - anything to do with the fact that he was far too small? Take your time dim Kiwi


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:12:01

 Well if that's the case you should definitely be able find a source, try the WRU maybe.

 

Down goes Dave


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:14:14

 Becs, forgive me if I take your myopic view of Welsh rugby with a grain of salt, you're as bad as Brian Moore frankly, perhaps you should try reading the front page of the rugby section on BBC.co.uk.

 

I'll look for you the next time Dave needs a helping hand...sheesh.


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:16:38

 Poohie, do you claim disability benefits?


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:17:56

 Dave just because I'm debating with a retard doesn't make me one...


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:22:11

 I take that as a yes then - good to know my hard earnt taxes are being well spent!!


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:25:27

Wow, that must make being knocked about by me again on a rugby forum even more embarrassing for you, fly up the bat signal Dave, maybe Becs will swing in and save you.

 

Still  waiting on that source Dave


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:30:11

 Do you get off on self proclamation - do you give yourself a little badge at the end of an evening? You must be so proud?


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:31:30

 Hmm, great comeback Dave, got that source yet?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:34:51

 What source you after - you failed to ask. What is it bulk, strength or weight - maybe a combo of each, or one minus the other. How's that chest beating coming along, anyone in the house to share your glory, I suspect not, but hey feel free to share the high with us


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:38:13

All this aside, chances are Halfpenny is close to 90kg these days after all that bulking up 

 

Where's your source? Please tell me it aint mens health magazine. You can't back it up can you Dave...*sigh* where's Becs when you need her right?


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 03, 2012, 23:59:41

 Ah the kiwi struggling again - you will find that at no point have I defined Halfpenny's weight as a given. Did you miss the word 'chances' and 'close to' - is that a defining in your little world.

Poohie, please step up son, this is all a little too easy. Some heads up here - do a basic legal course at some point, it will help moving forward, that way you may be able to assert yourself with some measure of conviction in the future.


Chippo

Status: Squad member
Posts: 514
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 04, 2012, 00:15:07

@Dave

LOL mate, Mens Health???

 

But for once I'm totally with you!

 

An inside back needs to be probably 10 - 15kg heavier nowdays than he did 10 years ago... with the odd exception of Andre Snyman of course.

And a guy like Brendan Venter (I didnt really rate him that much) on defense, though he was light foted, he never let any team down defensivly.

 

Wings... one can still get away with an 85 - 90kg wing. Look at Shane Williams, Gio Aplon etc... GIo punches way above his 85kg frame. I can recall some really good 1 on 1 tackles made by him.

 

THat being said, these are all exceptions.

Saf is right... sorry to say.

 

 


Saffex

Status: Hall Of Fame
Posts: 8504
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 04, 2012, 00:20:07

 Yeah bud, google gave me a muscled up Halfpenny in Mens Health, that kid looks like a bodybuilder these days


Ek

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 1464
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 04, 2012, 07:55:45

 I see most of you have not read the whole report on the Springbok squad, cleraly from the shouting that Kolisi should be there.

I have news if you read a bit further and found out you would have realised that Heynecke has picked 6 young guys as part of the squad but they aren't pickabvle so to say. They will train with the squad to develop and have heynecke look at them. Mostly i think these guys are going to feature some time in the future and heynecke might use them if an injury pops up. These young guys are:

 Siya Kolisi (flank),

Arno Botha (No 8),

Frans Malherbe (prop),

CJ Stander (loose forward),

Francois Venter (centre)

Piet van Zyl (scrumhalf).


poi-e

Status: Bok regular
Posts: 778
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 04, 2012, 08:27:47

 ok got it, a sub 90 kg player can play test rugby if they can get a muscled up picture in Mens Health....have you considered a career in the carnival Dave, you could run the 'guess your weight' booth

 

'Chances are' Dave - you're contention is there is a chance Leigh Halfpenny is 90kg, well then surely there is a chance you can find a source to back your assertion - or does law have nothing to do with making an argument and backing them up with evdence to support your argument.  Anyways divorce law is hardly litigation I guess.

 

Dave it would be easier and less embarrassing for you just to admit there are some sub 90kg outside backs performing at international level.

 


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 04, 2012, 16:31:26

 None of this debate would have happened if our best 30 players were chosen.


Arthur John

Status: Squad member
Posts: 597
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 04, 2012, 16:38:11

 No one will ever be happy with any selection irrespective of colour, team, ability etc.

Unfotyunately we are human!!!!!!!


Stormer77

Status: Orange peeler
Posts: 76
RE: Springbok Squad thoughts
June 04, 2012, 16:50:47

Yes but the best 30 is a winning strategy.


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